46235 City of Birmingham

I'm not sure I'd read much into what someone has written on Wikipedia, without any references to back it up. I have "plans but no timescale to return LSWR No. 563 to steam in the future" (haven't yet discussed those plans with Anthony, but all in good time…) but I suspect those plans wouldn't exactly be seen as credible by most people! With regard 6229, I'd like to see something more concrete than an anonymous unattributed statement on Wikipedia before I started to get excited...

Tom

 

Your right, but there's more chance of Hamilton hammering the rails than City of Birmingham.

 

Ah good, I'm not the only one then

 

(just waiting on the massive lottery win!)

 

This is why we learn from our mistakes. So that we get things right the next time going forward. It has been a long path with a lot of false starts and finishes, but the end is in sight and we've effectively got 4472 renewed almost entirely. Things will be better this time around as long as she's maintained well (and she will be, by Ian Riley). Lessons learned from 4472 can be applied to 6229.

Now, I'm no LMS fan at all - but if they held out a bucket and said "we'll steam her if we have the cash" I'd get the chequebook out for that. No one has seen one in steam since the last one, City of Lancaster, was de-streamlined in the late 40s. Imagine the Duchess and Bittern passing each other at speed on the ECML or WCML. THAT's a sight I'd pay money to see. Streamlined leviathans of our golden age going at it hammer and tong again.

For the moment, there's no immediate need for another 8P Pacific for the NRM in steam, so understandably there's little chance at present of anything serious occurring. But if I get that lottery win…I'll throw in the first £100,000 towards the overhaul. That's a promise.

 

Granted there'd be more chance of 6229 being restored, especially now this particular Duchess has been put back in the "Bathtub"! Streamlining that is. As the NRM most of the time 6233 Sutherland was in service, said they'd not be in a hurry to restore their loco to working order as it would dilute the "market" for the type. That is unless the streamlining was restored then the "may" reconsider, as it would make a differance. One thing I perhaps would like to see is 6235 refitted with the "cutdown" sloping smokebox as per the period just after it [and 6229] had, had the streamlining removed. Bearing mind that 6233 was never streamlined, and that would give the 3 versions if you will if the type.

 

I think it would ask more questions than answer than if Hamilton was in as poor a state as 4472 was.

 

That's not what I was saying. Lessons learned from how the overhaul of 4472 was conducted could be applied to 6229. I was in no way saying that 6229 was in a poor state.

 

I realise that Martin, but I'd be surprised if any NRM loco operating relatively recently would be allowed to get into the state 4472 was, 6229 as a result is unlikely to run into the millions and between 2 or 3 different contractors, so think any lessons learned are of limited value if a rebuild of such magnitude is unlikely to happen again.

 

That's fair enough but I would argue any experience can be learned from, even if as you say, limited. In the case of 4472 the NRM didn't have the capability to carry out an overhaul of that magnitude.

6229 may not require as comprehensive an overhaul but it will require a different approach to a conventional overhaul given the streamlined casing and the new electronics required for it to run on the mainline. Ergo, it would be fair to assume that an outside contractor could be brought in to do such an overhaul (and probably should be - Tyseley works did the streamlining I recall) in a vein similar to Riley & Sons and 4472.

 

thought people might find this picture interesting….

http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/Crewe-Works/i-DxVDJRv/A

 

Hurricane, Gosh there are some great colour & almost high definition photos on that site from the last days of steam.

 

I was lead to believe that the City of Birmingham was fully refurbished and was given to the City of Birmingham.

 

As far as I'm aware it has not been steamed since it was withdrawn from service.

 

yes your right though it was in full working order when delivered.
It apparently had that much work done to it, it being classed as a New loco

 

It is lucky that both Duchess of Sutherland and Duchess of Hamilton were saved from scrap by none other than Sir Billy Butlin for display as items at holiday camps. A far cry from what, fortunately, turned out to be their current situations. City of Birmingham was indeed cosmetically overhauled and presented to the City after which it was named. As a student at the university of that city, I recall going to see it in all its glory in the 1970s and seeing the wheels and motion rotate with electric motors. Other offers of preservation were, I understand, made by BR to UK cities, including Stoke on Trent and London for namesake locos but these were declined (after all, where are you going to put a steam loco and they're so passé in the white heat technology of the 1960s aren't they?) as was the A4 when offered to Australia. I'm also aware of a rumour (and we love these on the internet don't we?) that Sir William Stanier FRS was close to being preserved but this was not to be and caused some disappointment to say the least. I'm sure those Nat Pres members who know far more about Stanier's wonderful locomotives will be able to add more or correct my cloudy thoughts. I guess we are lucky to have 3 Stanier princess coronations but we might have had more.

 

She was cosmetically restored, for sure, but I don't think that the boiler was overhauled. After all this time, that would have to be redone anyway before returning her to steam. In any case, she's not going anywhere - asbestos issues and extra costs effectively prohibit moving her, even for static display elsewhere. I don't think that her owners would be keen to let her out either, tbh. To open her up to overhaul the boiler would destroy the paint job she has - the last one remaining untouched since leaving the paintshop. As has been pointed out, what would be achieved by steaming her? We have 46233 in operation, with 6229 returning at some point.

 

Yes I believe 46256 was offered for sale at £2400, a lot of money at today's prices of course.

Dave

 

At some point in the Future there may be Dire need for this locomotive and the paint job may have deteriorated to the point where she is no longer an attractive exhibit... but for the moment I agree, best left.