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P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by class8mikado, Sep 13, 2013.

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  1. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    See what I can do. The figs I posted are gleaned from a number if different sources and are my interpretation of the data, so there are some minor assumptions where data for an individual loco was incomplete eg element dia and exact length. If anyone has dims for original 2001 & 2007 plse link or pm me. Tornado I should be able to find.
     
    Sheff, Jan 16, 2014
    #381
  2. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sheff, do you have the RCTS bible on LNER engines..................................... part 6B?

    If not I'll see if I can scan the relevant bits......................... not "exactly" what you're looking for, but should be of some help!
     
    Duty Druid, Jan 16, 2014
    #382
  3. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Isn't narrow/wide box a significant factor in the combustion chamber requirement too? I did a desk exercise looking at various boiler numbers a while back and one thing that struck me was that the ratio of firebox heating surface to grate area was (of course) much lower with a wide firebox, but the combustion chamber fitted boilers brought the ratio back to the same sort of numbers as the best narrow box boilers.
     
    Jimc, Jan 16, 2014
    #383
  4. 5786Dan

    5786Dan New Member

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    Just curious, why are two of these being built?
     
    5786Dan, Jan 16, 2014
    #384
  5. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    DD - no I don't - that would be very helpful.
     
    Sheff, Jan 16, 2014
    #385
  6. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    Hope this is useful then...................................................

    Some number crunching maybe required!!
     

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    Duty Druid, Jan 16, 2014
    #386
    Sheff likes this.
  7. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks DD - that works wonders ;)
     
    Sheff, Jan 16, 2014
    #387
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  8. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Was about to say - surely you are too young to be retired Sheff , but then im not old enough to remember DD - working wonders, first hand anyway...
     
    class8mikado, Jan 16, 2014
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  9. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    Glad to help Sheff!!

    And me working wonders, Class8 - I doubt it - If I could work wonders, I'd be turning water into wine........................................
     
    Duty Druid, Jan 16, 2014
    #389
  10. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Any chance of similar for later design A3 boiler too DD plse? (Am just doing a King - need a base line yardstick ;) )
     
    Sheff, Jan 16, 2014
    #390
  11. b.oldford

    b.oldford Member

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    But doing the converse is so much more enjoyable! ;)
     
    b.oldford, Jan 16, 2014
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  12. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    The attached MIGHT be of use Sheff, the figures ARE for a later type A3 boiler......................................................

    BUT were fitted to the two P1's............................................

    Sadly my RCTS set is incomplete! :(
     

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    Duty Druid, Jan 16, 2014
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  13. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Yep that's the baby - Dia 94HP/94A - one's banjo's, t'other is round dome. Ta!
     
    Sheff, Jan 16, 2014
    #393
  14. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    Someone sounds happy!

    I assume I've "done it again"?.............................................
     
    Duty Druid, Jan 16, 2014
    #394
  15. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    Duty Druid, Jan 16, 2014
    #395
  16. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Yeah - I'm on there too. Now puzzled about 94EE (double Robinson 62 element superheater), vs 94A/94HP which appear to have A4 type 43 elememt superheater. HELP!!
     
    Sheff, Jan 16, 2014
    #396
  17. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not sure I can help, BUT the attached text refers to the A3 boilers on the P1's reverting back to original.

    Just thought I'd add to the confusion............................................ o_O

    Maybe you're trying to over complicate things............. the figures for the P1 A3 boiler are, I assume, without mods.....................
     

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    Duty Druid, Jan 16, 2014
    #397
  18. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    DD - I'm sure it's the 94HP/94A boiler that the A3's ended up with, as per your 2nd scan. The 94E was an experiment with high superheat on the old Dia 94 180 psi boiler which wasn't a success. The only problem is the element area when calculated is much greater than the 706 sg ft quoted in your ref. On line data is all over the place - most quoting the area of the 94E experiment (1104 sq ft) as the area of the later 220 psi boilers. see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Gresley_Classes_A1_and_A3 and here http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a1a3a10.shtml. By comparison, A4's have 847 sq ft, and the larger Duchess 825 sq ft. Hmm.
     
    Sheff, Jan 16, 2014
    #398
  19. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    I would have thought 706 sq ft would be closer to the mark...................................................... as to the untrained eye those other figures seem way too big!

    Like I've said, I'm no engineer................................. but with the same sized boiler with a few mods (?), just how do you get to figures like those?.........................................like you say A4's & them LMS Thingy's....... things just don't stack up!

    I'd say work with the figures I've given you (and assume they are correct) and see what you come up with!

    BTW there are some other facts and figures for 2001 from the tests at Vitry................................ (I wonder if the A1/P2 lads have a copy of the RCTS book? = they may find it interesting!!)
     
    Duty Druid, Jan 16, 2014
    #399
  20. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Pretty much every loco's superheater data leads to an over estimation of element area vs the published figure, so I have a 'fiddle factor' which shortens the element length to reduce the area to the correct figure. It maybe that the area is calculated from the ID, not the OD, but I've allowed for that by using 1" dia instead of the 1.25 in the data. Summat odd going on generally, not just the A3 which just happens to be the worst offender.
     
    Sheff, Jan 16, 2014
    #400
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