4464 Bittern to do 90mph on ECML - 29 June & 27 July 2013

It's strange the decision came so late but what you're suggesting is just beyond belief, even for NR !

 

What are the chances of the 'Tyne Tees Streak' being run at a weekend as I have no chance of doing a Friday tour now until next April :-(

 

Hmm... Tyne-Tees Streak immediately before, and Capital Streak, retimed to earlier in the afternoon, immediately after might be the perfect compliments to the NRM event. However, it's not a foregone conclusion that the 90mph derrogation can be extended, and the owners cannot go on turning down other bookings, so I'd expect the organisers to try to re-schedule the tours in September if they possibly can.

 

Nice to get some balance into this debate. Thank you.

One further point, which NR may or may not have been watching. Earlier this week the forecast was for a band of rain to cross almost the whole country from NW to SE, (possibly missing the SW). I am watching the forecasts very carefully at present to avoid spending too much on watering my developing wildlife garden, so on the strength of that forecast I eased back on watering for two nights.

Maybe NR felt that a good dose of rain would have reduced the fire risk long enough for the two A4 90mph runs to go ahead? Hence the late decision to postpone when the forecast changed?

This doesn't mean I don't have enormous sympathy for those who have spent so much and given up so much time hoping to travel on these trains. Because I do.

But I do feel some of the posts here and some of the language directed at NR is tending towards being out of order.

 

It certainly rained at Newcastle last Saturday and York as I watched the racing from there on TV so is the rain you mention here that did not arrive another lot of weather? It certainly rained in the East of England a lot last weekend. Weather changes and long range forecasts have been proved to be junk.

 

Yes. It was a band of rain that was supposed to have crossed a lot of the country last night. It was in the BBC forecast a few days ago. It looked ideal to me for a very short term respite to keep the A4 runs alive.

I think it suddenly went from the forecast Wednesday evening or yesterday morning. So the hose was out again in my garden last night.

 

I really feel sorry too for all those passengers who had booked on these trip, as i feel that NR should be held resposible for the such short notice.
This lineside fire excuse seems to flair up alot, yet what happened during when steam ruled the network, they could not suspend trains then, but i have said it before that the vegetation is getting well out of control, with trees,and shrubbery now growing at the side of tracks, which once was cut back or removed.
If perhaps NR removed all this then perhaps they could have space to relay extra lines, which is now taken up by the vegetation.

 

That's a good idea! Then all the extra paths created would make HS2 an even bigger waste of money.

 

Great post, I suspect many of the posts you speak of were driven by emotion, frustration and disappointment rather than reason. We've seen similar reactions before after all but the finger pointing really isn't helpful. I know it's been said before but there seems to be a perception by some that NR only exists to look after the operation of steam, and owes all it's resources, time and talent to it. They really don't and we should remember how fortunate we were even to get to the stage of 90mph being approved.

Controversial I know, but I'd say a good course of action now, (if possible, and given all that's been said already about September constraints and reducing daylight after that), would be to reschedule these tours to early spring 2014 when the days will be getting longer again, and the ground (hopefully), will not be so combustible.

 

I agree the late decision is hard to understand in all this. In my opinion they should have cancelled this time last week when many on here were foreseeing this happening anyway. That said, I would hope that anyone booked on this trip would have been prepared for a higher risk of cancellation, and therefore not exposed themselves to too great a potential loss. Had that band of rain arrived it could all have been very different and we'd be praising NR for letting it go to the wire. I think we should be prepared for more of these late notice decisions unfortunately, and hopefully with modern methods of communication becoming more widespread it shouldn't be necessary to have someone phoning people late into the evening with any breaking news. An imperfect solution in an imperfect world.

 

Given what has happened over recent weeks, it must've been obvious to *everyone* that this tour was at risk of being cancelled or requiring diesel assistance. I think that the tour operator is equally responsible as they took a risk, that may, or may not, have been on NR's advice, but even they must've been aware that it was a risk. While I have some sympathy for those who have lost out on hotel bookings etc., it is surely foolish for anyone to make bookings specific to railtours that aren't refundable at short notice, as this has happened time and again, and will continue to do so. Again, this is really up to the tour operator to strongly recommend this course of action to their clients, or to be prepared to compensate / lose them.

 

Given the very late cancellation of the tour, there aren't that many places who would allow cancellation without penalty at that short a notice. Plus apex train fairs are non refundable no matter how much notice is given.

 

I can't see why extending the derogation would be an issue, if the loco has pretty much sat idle in the meantime, then no further wear should have been inflicted or much changed in that time, you have a point on the financial side however with other work going elsewhere, depends where Mr Hosking wants to draw the line.

 

Problem with a lot of trains to the start point and hotels these days, it's often a choice of advance non refundable tickets, or not doing the tour at all, as refundable hotels and walk on train fairs are hideously expensive these days, that's why I don't do tours without a local pick up, regardless of how much I envy those on them, I don't have money to burn.

It's the late notice that irks people, when 5043 went to Scotland, the first I knew of diesel assistance was heading northbound around Crewe.

 

I agree that it's not ideal, but it's either pay the extra, or accept the risk. Even if you only do a few tours a year, I suspect it's better to take the risk and book the cheap advance fares and hotels, accepting that you might get stung now and again, but there is a choice.

My feeling is that it's the tour operators who should be making the ultimate call, as we all know that even short term weather forecasting isn't an exact science, and Network Rail are as vulnerable to that as anyone. I understand that late notice is frustrating, but if a decision needed to be made two weeks in advance then I suspect there would've been no steam-hauled trains at all this summer. Again, I think this choice should lie with the tour operators as they have to weigh up the risks to their business and deal with the customers.

 

A refundable hotel would have been no good in my case, I'd already checked in when my wife phoned me with the news at 7 pm.

 

This time last week is exactly when the steam ban was lifted and there was a mood of elation on this thread. Cancellation at that time would have caused outrage for its appalling timing. The ban was reinstated on Tuesday this week - that is when these tours should have been cancelled. The fact that they weren't suggests that ultimately undeliverable promises of an exemption from the ban were made.

 

There is of course a very easy route for NR to take if much of the abuse, bad language, financial claims etc directed at them here and elsewhere translates into extra management time/cost.

And that is for all steam hauled trips anywhere in the UK to have a diesel booked to be coupled behind the steam loco and for the diesel to do virtually all of the work.

With NR having the discretion on the day the train runs to either allow the diesel to do no work at all, or to have it removed from the train, (unless it is needed for operational reasons).

Who would suffer from that? The limited number of us who time steam trains most certainly And possibly just a few others on board?

Plus those lineside photographers who don't like mixed traction shots.

Push NR hard enough and I think this will happen. If I was still at the very top of the railway industry, (as I was once as an employee), I would certainly be suggesting that option gets very serious consideration.