Betton Grange

Reading through these pages it is abundantly clear there a fair few disgruntled 6880 supporters, and some of them myself included were big hitters in the project I see the word "tirelessly" mentioned yes there are pictures to prove that !
I am truly ashamed of what 6880 has become and in comparison to like projects I don't see any of this negativity.

I suppose I am in a unique position of being with 6880 from its inception until 2009 when through a combination of my own personal life and well... still don't know why till this day i left .this does not mean "I" like others on here are not passionate about 6880 and getting the job done for all to enjoy.

Since leaving myself and others have stood back and watched we have seen how people who have given precious time and money have been treated with utter contempt causing them to offer there services no more...

We have witnessed "like" projects moving at a rapid pace while 6880 considers building the 81st brolley a milestone...sorry about that but I promised Neil I would get it in.

As of now 6880 appears to have five board members with no access to the WWW. phone or royal mail but are very good at running up large bills with Moretons media with the work of fiction "give us your money" adverts, when one sees this and knows this is subscribers money down the tubes.....how do I know its a waste of money and time ? because i tend to take note of a chairman who of a near on 200k per annum says so !!!!....is it any wonder we all get a bit hacked off

You may be able to sense the anger and frustration, ideas and suggestions fall on deaf ears at an alarming rate so all we are left with is Nat Pres and now we have " Bacofoil " saying "give is your money and 6880 should be applauded for there efforts".

More or less every aspect of what has been said can be backed up with fact the refusal by the board to justify reasons why only serves to exasperate the now helpless member ship.

If I was still on the board and I was reading this I would feel utterly ashamed I couldn't take a penny more until I had delivered the goods....

There needs to be a turning point maybe the AGM will bring that who knows but I would suggest this...

A meeting with the board and the people on these pages might be all that's needed to get 6880 back on course

Im up for it and I know a few more that would be, why ??? because we are here to build 6880.

 

Firstly I would like to acknowledge the considered reply by lil Bear he/she ( sorry don't know ) makes some valid points based on my knowledge of the 6880 project

as far as 6880 rules reply is concerned I will make the following points,
every project needs money so how do you get money if you don't ask
Who ever you refer to with regards to saying advertising doesn't work seems to be a little out of touch, the majority of projects adversities in one way or another and the amount of advertising for products and services in general tends to point to the fact that it does work to some extent.If you don't try how do you know.

If you read the 6880 news letter you will notice the umbrellas have been sponsored, to mock this is rude and shows a total disregard for what other people do for the project.

I have emailed the website and spoken to the membership secretary several times, I had no problem doing this and I got a prompt reply.

I stand by my comments that all 6880 members should be applauded for what they have done so far. I also feel that if people are prepared to give money or time to the project that's great, if people cannot afford to travel then they can help from home doing lots of things I am sure.

I have read the history of 6880 and you are not unique as I am sure the chairman has been with the project from its inception.

finally you state you are passionate about 6880 but as far as I read you just want to knock the project and people who donate items for sale ie the umbrellas, and you sound quite bitter which is a very sad trait.

 

Bacofoil, something smells funny here and its not foil related, who are you exactly ??? Im Chris, i have worked all the 6880 Galas and its cost me a lot to be there for all the time, nevertheless i have enjoyed doing them and feel i have put a lot in to the project by helping out in this way. Everyone knows me but i should know you. Do i ? Little Bear is Jon and a man btw but im sure you knew that. Its all very bizzare this. I thought it was a team effort for a great cause but knocking spots off each other is surely counter productive and looks realy bad on here.

 

Correct. And once it's out in the public domain, that's it. Can't be retracted. Guys, you're REALLY not doing your cause any good by washing your dirty laundry in public.

Mark

 

Nothing funny at all, I am a 6880 member that helps out, I am also a working member of a railway. I didn't know who anyone was or is as I said I am new to the forum and only know the names as they are.
i am not knocking spots of anyone, some people make good remarks and they make sense, some people are just very negative and I personally think that's wrong.I don't think people should say things about not asking for more donations because the project failed to reach its goal set at the last AG M ( which I was at ) I think people should be positive and understand the obstacles in the way.i just want to see the loco progress without negative back biting. One person on here has said they wouldn't put money in because of the comments on here, that's what prompted me to contribute.

 

I agree it's not good, but I decided to comment because of all the negative comments,since I have no one seems to like it and says I am knocking spots of people,not sure how positive comments do that.

 

Anyway, after the mud-slinging session, which was a bit too personal for my liking, as there is nobody on the board who has the technical knowledge to comment on the state of the boiler can they not at least ask the Llangollen boilersmiths to do a preliminary survey (or as best they can with the tubes & flues insitu). At least this will inform people as to the excellent condition that this boiler is in.

Bob.

 

I would of thought 3 -4 of weekends effort by the volunteer workforce would of seen the tubes out by now Seeing as the boiler has been there for over 5 years !

After that a prep up for thickness testing and crack testing for the usual suspect corner's

Then I would of thought a survey by the Boiler inspector for the Insurance company, and if mainline running is still an idea then get the VAB to add there thoughts.

I am very surprised that this has not been done considering they are asking for 350k to finish the job by 2016 and to come up with this figure a near enough boiler inspection and costing would of been a large part of the sum required.

 

Update on website:

AXLEBOXES RE-FURBISHED | Betton Grange 6880

 

I don't think they've got anybody who knows how to do it !
The boiler needs de-tubing, de-scaling & the old studs & washout plugs removing. It can then be surveyed properly.
If they were to start work I would give them a hand, but you will not see anybody near the boiler from one year to the next.

Bob.

 

I think we do know how to do it, but when we're ready. Can't understand the sudden hurry to assess the boiler. If anyone reading this wants to provide volunteer help with the Betton Grange Project then please contact the Society via our website. The working party dates are on our website under 'Events'

 

There isn't a sudden hurry, just that the 6880 board stated that the survey was to be commissioned from the proceeds of Steel Steam & Stars 3 which took place 9 months ago.

Bob.

 

It must also represent the potenially largest unknown cost to the project at the moment.

 

Up to a point. It is probably worth re-quoting Fred Bailey, who is leading the Brighton Atlantic project. Having just spent £68k on a variety of smallish and very largely unseen parts connected with the motion, lubrication and braking systems, he wrote in the last Atlantic magazine (my emphasis):

In other words, don't underestimate how the price of the myriad small fittings on a new build soon add up, without necessarily giving you any big tangible visible appearance of "progress" towards a finished engine.

Tom

 

The rate of progress of any locomotive project whether re-buiding from Barry condition or when embarking on a new build, will depend on the availability of funds. I have no recollection of any promise that the assessment of our boiler(s) by the 6880 Board was made with the funds from SSS3 and I've checked with the other Board members - but, it certainly is our ambition to assess the boiler when funds are available.
I would appreciate it generally if any queries by Betton Grange members about our project and it's progress etc would be directed to the 6880 Board and not posted on a public forum. It is internal Society business. The 6880 Board are making the decisions about the construction of the locomotive with the guidance of the best engineering practice provided by our Engineering Director and our VAB with advice from the team building the locomotive.

 

Sorry, but in my opinion (and I'm sure many others share this view), when you appeal for public funds, then the public have a right to know what you are doing with their donations and you lose the right to keep everything as 'internal Society business'. With the very poor and infrequent updates on your official website then it is not surprising that people turn to forums, facebook etc to find out what is happening, and since this is a (relatively!) free country you do not have the right to ask people to stop discussing the project.


Keith

 

Thanks for your comment Keith and I agree with you that if you make a donation to a group or Society then you have every reason to know how that money is spent. Of the various groups and Societies I personally choose to contribute to, my first line of approach is to ask the officers of that Society how my money has been spent. What I don't do is to go on a public forum and complain. Now if you are not a Betton Grange member and you have made a donation then feel free to contact me with any question you may have at david@6880.co.uk
Our website is updated on a regular basis, the last posting being yesterday with another also this month. The latest Newsletter from December has informed all our members of the latest news and progress of our project. This Newsletter will also be posted on our website shortly, although we do think that our members should receive news first before anybody else.
Last I heard it is a free country and we all welcome comments, discussion and news in the railway preservation world, which this forum is very good at sharing

 

Sorry David, but the Gift Aid Declaration page for SSS3 says otherwise...
http://www.6880.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/SSS3-12-side-v2.pdf

However, welcome to Nat Pres! I think your first point sums it up as simply as you can. Hopefully the planned wheeling of 6880 will generate enough further support to achieve more in 2013!