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J39 Locomotive Group

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by EGBDF, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    You got in quickly there! I was editing it within a minute as soon as I'd spotted it! (And the other one.)
     
  2. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    You're all posting the right letters, just not necessarily in the right order!

    To the J39 guys - keep pushing on, given time, gumption, and enthusiasm, you'll get there. Expertise is something that'll come as more people are attracted to the project and you yourselves grow and learn. I would lose the copper boiler plan though.
     
  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    the difference now though is that youngsters make their mistakes on the internet to a much wider audience !
     
  4. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Ignore the people on here you try to say " you will never do it" for what ever reasons, the preservation world can be split into 2, those who say, and those who do, i know who i prefer to take advise from,

    My advise is keep it simple, by deciding to have a go at an inside cylindered 0-6-0 you have made a good start but rethink the copper boiler, a copper inner firebox yes, but stick to tradition with the rest, including rivitted construction rather than welded boiler barrel , there are very good reasons why things were done as they were and i would think that a rivitted boiler with copper box would last longer and be less troublesome,

    Get your finance sorted , dont fall into half baked ideas about new technology which would undermine your case, the idea that someone else put about funding in small blocks, ie making small bits first, building up to the larger stuff is sound advise , as if you take small bites you can learn and you will have a better chance with the lager items , a set of frames being assembled sayes more than having a smokebox door and plate but nothing else, so good luck
     
  5. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    I think Martin has the right of it, but on the subject of 'half baked ideas about new technology' remember that there are some proven concepts out there that are worth considering, although not being engineering minded I don't know about the appropriateness of some of them for what you are trying to do.

    Sticking to the original design is the way the 82045 gang are going for ease of having the plans approved by the powers that be (ORR I think), but other locomotives, notably on the narrow gauge, have had Lempor exhaust systems and Gas Producer Combustion Systems fitted with remarkable results in both power and economy, and I believe the Lyn project on the L&B is looking at both of these systems for their new loco. Roller bearings are also a modification worth considering.

    So have a think about it, decide what you're trying to do - the next J39 off the production line, or a 21st-century J39 with a few improvements. Both are possible.
     
  6. George A

    George A New Member

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    While i like the idea of a J39, wasnt the reason for the rapid withdrawal of the class down to higher than average maintenance costs due to the hot axlebox problems which were never solved?

    Athough of course with the new build a way to solve that problem might be found.
     
  7. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry there is encouraging new talent and entertaining the harebrained and this is definitely in the latter category. The website shows the 'Chief Engineer' for the group who can't yet be old enough to have taken his GSCEs let alone be capable of signing a specification off based on qualification and experience. THE GWS was started by youngsters that is true but they started with a complete engine that was built by engineers in a railway workshop. Just a slight difference? The phrase run before you walk springs to mind...

    This might be a nice engine to add to the new build list but this group isn't the one to build it. Its as if I have decided to compete with EDF and build a nuclear power-station in my back garden one afternoon.

    A1 Steam Trust is still the only operating full size, main line-able new build out there. 82045, Brighton Atlantic, NER tank thingy, 6880 & Patriot all follow and will succeed. They will because they start with a solid engineering team and good fund raising mechanisms and processes. Unfortunately most of the rest are a collection of smokebox doors, nameplates, buffers and fully painted cabs, a couple of frame plates with the odd 08 buffer thrown in mixed with a lot of hot air.

    For those that think I am being harsh I take it you will be donating a four figure sum to said group as an act of faith? I'm sort of getting the feeling that the group would not have the slightest clue about financial management, engineering design, material specifications, component manufacture or traceability / QA etc. This is a conversation a group of over enthusiastic youngsters have had which has gone too far. As I said, once they have grown up, got the qualifications and experience, done the girlfriend, wife and family thing out the way then do it. Alternatively as Valerie Singleton on Blue Peter used to say "if you need help then get an adult to help"
     
  8. m0rris

    m0rris New Member

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    Agree with everything you say, and it is made more important when you think that you need over £1,000,000 to build a loco it seems. Thats alot of money and there has to be a large amount of trust to counteract the sheer amount of money needed.

    I would just add though that there is even more potential for plenty of successful new builds/rebuilds... those based at Didcot, the Bluebell rebuild, the Bloomer and I am encouraged throughwhat I've heard about the GCR567 trust. Importantly all of these groups are based around major railways with experience in engineering get in those teams and help! For starters there's plenty of new build groups that could do with some IT help to improve their websites.
     
  9. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Were starting the funding for the copper at the start of 2012. so in a couple of weeks. 75k to purchase it
     
  10. blandford1969

    blandford1969 New Member

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    Keep going and ignore those who say it can't be done. I seam to remember the same being said of the A1, 82045, the Saint project and the Patriot (when it was originally tried back in the 80s???)

    Most preservation groups were set up by people around your age in the late 60s or 70s who are now older.

    Get a good business plan together and build your support.
     
  11. EGBDF

    EGBDF New Member

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    Thank you! Your support is much appreciated.
     
  12. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    It's not easy to say this in a kindly way. Basically when someone such as myself, who has operated steam vehicles most of his life but is no engineer, suspects that he may know more about what is involved than those associated with a project, then concerns are justified. It would be better if this project were "deep frozen" for a while to enable the principals to get some experience of full size as opposed to model engineering. Maunsell man's seeming suspicions that the "copper boiler" business stemmed from a transposition of model engineering practice to the big stuff shows what I mean.

    I have no problem with the choice of prototype. Indeed, with the exception of the two tank engine projects it seems a more sensible idea than anything else underway at present.

    Lastly, those involved would do well to heed the doubters rather than the facile optimists. All too often the latter remind me of football supporters urging the club of their choice to spend money they don't have to acquire the services of players they have no need for.

    P.H.
     
  13. CADNick

    CADNick New Member

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    As a fledging volunteer of the group not a piad member I may add. I am deeply disapointed at the coments I have read on here.
    As a draughsman at a uk boiler firm (Hoval) I have offerd my 3D inventor skills and my engineering and steam expierience in aiding this project a must in modern day engineering practice.
    As with most projects it is still in its early stages finacing, planing, developing a decent team with a good engineering background.
    Please note these guys are young... but have alot of respect in the heritage movement and their determination will get the job done.

    Nick.
     

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