THE KENTISH BELLE ARMISTICE DAY (Tangmere now via Bromley)

This seems all very similar to what happened when they stopped Tangmere at Ore a few years back.

 

Yes I noticed the Deal stop in the timings and assumed given that and the fact that it is the "leaf fall" season that there would be a diesel attached to this train!

Did the train actually stop at Deal though? An earlier report on here suggests that it was already about 20 late so I wonder whether that stop was cut out?

 

My photo from yesterdays run through Kent, before the major issues occurred...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestigcouk/6334934621/

Steve

 

Clearly they don't. Yesterday's load was not excessive for a Light Pacific. I've seen 30777 tackle Martin Mill bank without assistance and she's only a Class 5.
Just checked and the load was 11 for the Arthur.

 

And 44932 did it with 12 a number of times last year. The issue is with the standing start at Deal on extremely poor rail conditions.

 

Well well, people on here actually saying there should have been a diesel on the back?? Never.....

This is exactly why there should be a diesel on the back or shadowing it, especially in autumn. In years gone by Dover would have had a spare loco to assist but not now. If it means more money on fares then so be it. I doubt if the cost of a loco following or on the back would be more than the delay costs someones going to have to pay now.

 

I've just registered, as I was on this train yesterday.

I can confirm that we did stop at Deal, but it was very confusing...

People started to get off the train to look at the engine, but the whistle was blowing a lot, signifying it was wanting to leave, the stewards didn't seem to know what was going on, but I got back on board.

As we pulled out of the station someone one the platform was shouting. Turns out he was a passenger, and hadn't got back on in time!!

The climb was very long and slow, and we did come to a stop (for a considerable time), I believe it was only a short distance from Martin Mill Station (but I'm not familiar with the area).

The driver tried valiantly for a long while to get the train moving again, but with no luck.

The train manager came through the train and informed us, that the engine crew were sanding the rails in front of us, and we did seem to make a significant progress after this. We did stop again. Presumably while they were doing a bit more sanding.

We then seemed to move with more success and we were off.

We must have been stuck on the gradient for around 1.5 hours ( we were already late I believe).

Whilst we were stuck, the sandite train did go in the opposite direction, and also a service train passed at some point.

Once we got going again progress was good, we got held for a short while outside Dover Priory.

In regards to a diesel on the rear, I actually thought one was there, as it bought the train into Waterloo.

My personal believe as a passenger on the train is, it would've been a good idea to have a diesel on the rear to assist yesterday. Or at least a rescue loco located along the route. I don't know what would've happened if the driver couldn't get the train going again.

I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread about non enthusiast not doing a trip again. I am an enthusiast, but its the first steam rail tour I've done, and it was a bad experience, one I would be doubtful of repeating.

My Father and I decided to leave the train at Dover Priory, it was getting dark and the scenic part outside dover by the sea, we would've missed.

The train manager had told us that the train wouldn't been long at Dover, but I was wondering if it would make the Headcorn water stop.

As we got off the train, there was a small garden hosepipe running to the engine, obviously not sufficient, but the steam crew told us that the situation was critical.

As I boarded the service train, the steam crew were trying to attach a large hose to a down pipe on another platform, and run the pipe over the footbridge.

If you have anymore questions, please ask and I will do my best to answer.

Could someone let me know where they got their information from in regards to what happened to the train along the route, as I came across this forum, whilst trying to find out what happened to the train.

Sorry for the long post.

Ferret1979

 

I think I was on that one last year. As you say the load was 11. I don't recall the engine slipping although I was in the last coach so it was hard to tell. Howeverit did make very slow progress up the bank and was about 15 minutes late by the time it reached Dover. So it wasn't easy but the chap next to me who was a former Stewarts Lane fireman assured me that Arthurs don't slip and slide like Bulleids!

 

The tour I was thinking of was 6th November 1994 and the climb was a storming one. Can't recall if it was from a standing start though.

 

Well here we are again with another debate about diesels on the back of steam trains! It may be boring but ir won't stop because the situation hasn't been resolved. Sometimes diesels are added for no apparent reason and enthusiasts feel short-changed. Other times such as yesterday it would seem like the sensible thing to do and yet it isn't done. The problem is a lack of consistency - who decides on these things and when?

I must say I cringe every time I read about this kind of thing happening on a mainline tour. There have been far too many incidents this year (Heritage Railway lists most of them and I can think of a couple more) and if I were a member of Network Rail management my patience would be wearing very thin. My fear is that there will be some overreaction to this - we now have steam banned from the ECML on weekdays following one incident and the logical reaction to this latest episode would be to insist on a diesel on the back of every steam tour regardless of conditions.

Maybe I am unduly pessimistic but things cannot be allowed to continue like this. One of the main problems is that there seems to be no back-up plan in case something goes wrong on these tours. If the crew hadn't got Tangmere going again yesterday what would the rescue plan have been and how long would it have taken? I'm sure they did a great job in the circumstances but they should never have been put in this position.

 

I live very close to the Maidstone East line and am aware a box, (92 class), hauled freight train slipped to stand on the bank out of Maidstone East towards London yesterday morning due to rail conditions. A common event during my commuting days on that line. So if Tangy caught the same conditions on Walmer Bank, (I am reliably told the rail conditions there were dreadful), it should not be a nail in steam's coffin. Just a reminder that when leaf fall is at it's worst us anti box brigade have to accept an insurance box may be needed. With due notice given. Which is all I want to know before I consider buying a ticket.

Whether a box is added to the back of the train is of course up to those closely involved with the train and who know much more about these things than I do. But motive power, load, route, timings, stops, and potential weather and possible rail conditions must surely all be taken into account? Crystal balls are not needed down here to know what happens to our train service in Autumn and Winter.

Interesting that the decision to re-route Tornado on the return was taken after the freight came to grief in the morning and before Tangmere's misfortune. So as not to tempt fate: good decision in my book.

Of course what you do about boxes slipping to a stand on freight trains is another matter. A steam loco on the back as insurance? LOL! Although I do understand alternative routes are considered for the 92 boxes when possible. i.e the Maidstone East line has some heavy grades, (and plenty of overhanging vegetation too).

And I do believe that whilst there was obviously disruption caused by Tangy coming to a standstill, that may not have been excessive. Although the subsequent water problems at Dover were a big problem.

But, IMHO, the people who run the railways down here have become rather adept at handling stalled trains at this time of the year. They have had many years of practice with normal service trains etc. I've been on or behind a few in my time as a commuter in Kent. If only those responsible would get to the root cause that has been around here in Kent for many, many years: too much overhanging lineside vegetation IMHO. And that would help us photographers as well, it's getting damned near impossible to find phot spots in some places now. LOL!

 

Looking at the photos of her stuck on the bank she is on the 1:71/69, 3/4 mile from the easier grade approaching Martin Mill Station. Unfortunately this stretch is heavily tree lined and often the trees strike the side of passing trains.

 

I think the anti 'box' brigade are the people who should be listened to least, if at all, on matters such as this. Debate about what used to pull what where back in the glory days of kettles are of no relevance.
What matters is the train runs to time and the passengers get back to their destination and back in reasonable time and there isn't a blockage of a running line for several hours. If that means a push from a 47 or 37 then so be it.
The vocal minority who moan about such things have no real argument. I wonder as a percentage of the passengers on yesterday's latest shambles were kettle purists and those that just wanted an easy day out?

 

06/11/1994 Was as far as i am aware the only time the Arthur has been round Kent and didnt stop at Deal.
Mixed day, probably the fastest anything has been round the curve at Tonbridge on the way down and probably also the slowest anything has passed through Sevenoaks Tunnel on the return. (Due to poor state of the fire)
Sorry to go off topic.

 

I have a very good argument; the £400 or so that I fork out for a trip.

 

I shot the following video at Bickley (outward journey), it shows just how bad things were, count the number of times from the start of the Tangmere piece to the moment it passes that Tangmere is heard slipping. I've never known anything like it before.
http://youtu.be/-Y2GTDewq9Y?hd=1
Tangmere piece starts at 01:40

 

Judging by the tone of your posts & constant use of the term "kettle" & "teapot" I believe, you would be better off on the WNXX forum. It's full of anti-steam & modern traction fanatics. By the way, the term "kettle" referring to a steam locomotive drives me mad, used all too frequently on the above mentioned forum. We don't need it here. You have only been on here 5 months & already your attitude winds me up.

 

If NR decide that diesel assistance is required for trains hauled by certain locomotives in certain weather conditions at certain times of the year then you may possible stand to save yourself a few £400's. Better that than NR saying steam is too difficult during certain months of the year and banning the lot....

 

Don't go slating other forums off on here as you don't know who might be tuned in...:madgrin: