Bulleid Pacifics - Past or Present

Unfortunately unrebuilding a MN has never got much further than a pipe dream so has never been properly costed up.

 

BP,

Thanks for this - good to have a discussion of Merchant Navies and the Aussie middle order imploding in Sydney on TMS. (Going to continue to enjoy this thread for months...). As you say, 35011's website seems rather quiet, and I'd be delighted to contribute to a reverse rebuild, but only if there's a real plan in place. If only Southern Locomotives could become interested (again). It seems rather unlikely given their focus on LPs - a shame. Did any unrebuilt MNs carry AWS? I don't recall seeing a picture of this.

And think of the fun and games one could have on the inevitable livery argument - Southern Green with Sunshine Lettering and Southern Horseshoe / Southern Dartboard, Southern Green with British Railways, BR Experimental Dark Blue*, BR Express Blue, Brunswick Green with early totem, Brunswick Green with the later totem**; and the cab debate..... Ugh, can't wait.

Tobbes

* Not sure how many actually carried it, though.
**Only recall seeing one unrebuilt MN with the later totem - 35028; can't see the MNLPS going for this plan somehow... Does anyone know of any others?

 

Matt35027,

Many thanks. Do we know what proportion of the drawings exist? Or how much a credible engineering estimate would cost to deliver?

Toby

 

A list of the liveries carried by the Merchant Navys is on the Bulleid Society web site http://www.bulleidsociety.org/, which I have just revamped.

The direct link to the Merchant Navy page is: http://www.bulleidsociety.org/OVS_Bulleid/OVSB_Merchant_Navy.html

Regarding the drawings for the originals, most exist.

 

As far as my references tell me (Bradley), 35024 East Asiatic Company was the only Bulleid to feature a variation of BR's experimental blue livery. It was applied on 12 February 1949 at Eastleigh Works, and featured yellow numerals and red bands in place of the Southern's 'sunshine' yellow bands over a dark blue base, the latter also being applied to the wheels. The early 'cycling lion' crest was hand-painted onto the tender! It ran to Brighton for inspection by the Railway Executive, and ran a couple of van trains before re-entering Eastleigh on 2 March 1949 for modifications, namely the application of straw numerals and the repositioning of the crest, whilst the black and white lining was used to replace the red bands. The dark blue remained, but this also failed to gain approval, and a complete re-think was done regarding the blue, which was a slightly lighter shade, and the wheels were painted black. Hope this helps!

 

According to the MHR web site, Swanage will soon be overhauled. Can anyone tell me what the rectangular object on top of the buffer beam is? Photo on this page - http://www.watercressline.co.uk/News/Loco/View/353

 

I believe it's the battery box for the AWS, but I could be wrong. They were normally located on the running plates in front of the cab, but of course Swanage hasn't got any of those!

 

brmp201,

The rectangular box is the AWS equipment, fitted to the BPs in the early 1960s along with the speedometers (distinguishable by the drive cable from the rear left driving wheel).

Hope this helps,

Tobbes

 

I see that both original and modified had these boxes, although it doesn't look like they all did. Some good photos here (but I'm still not sure what they are!):

Un-modified - http://www.semgonline.com/steam/blp05.html

Modified - http://www.semgonline.com/steam/blp53.html

Looks like Blackmoor Vale had it at one point (see top link)
but now it's been removed - http://www.semgonline.com/steam/blp21.html

 

As mentioned earlier, they are the battery boxes for the AWS. 34081 got hers late 1958/early 1959 but we removed them during her restoration.

 

brmp,

Blackmoor Vale lost hers becuase she's preserved in Southern Railway condition (and presumably because she doesn't need it for operations on the Bluebell). AWS went national in the late 1950s IIRC, so very few (if any) steam locomotives carried it from new, and it was fitted where it was convenient. You'll find similar kit on the right hand running board of Brittanias, for example.

Tobbes

 

Ok - thanks Tobbes. That makes sense. I see Tangmere still has it.

I wonder if the equipment on Swanage is in working order?

 

Spamcan81,

Did you remove the AWS battery boxed because you don't need AWS or because you were looking to have 92 Sqn preserved to represent a specific period?

Thanks,

Tobbes

 

Nice work Richard. An excellent rebuilt of the website, though some of us Bulleid Soc members may prefer the un-modified chain-driven HTML! The family resemblance with the SLL website is very clear too.

 

Its Ironic that the better the condition the original the more expense (in proportion) would have to be devoted to undoing the BR MODS which is probably why it hasnt yet.

Starting with a complete wreck (which someone will let you have...) on which only the Boiler, frames and wheels and perhaps the outside cylinders are of any use you are talking Tornado money, less the frames, wheels and difference between new boiler and reconditioning the old (which might not be that much). As has been said there are still lots of good nick Bulleids (and more importantly people experienced with restoring them), Bulleid drawings and maybe even patterns that could be used to mitigate this so lets say £ 2-2.5 Million ?

 

Thanks.

I'm no expert in these things, and my books are all in storage at the moment, but from memory it'd require, in addition to a normal Barry wreck:

- New centre centre cylinder and smoke box saddle casting
- New crank axle for the middle drivers
- Remove all Walschaerts valve gear and replace with Bulleid and associated lubrication
- Remove wheel weights
- New smokebox to the original design (though presumably you'd need a new 'box on an ex-Barry machine anyway)
- New framework and air-smoothed cladding
- Potentially new old-design cab
- High-raved Bulleid tender
- Steam reverser
- Power operated firedoors

And to go the whole hog, 280psi on the boiler - and if it were emulating CanPac, then you could always have her with a Berkeley mechanical stoker.

Not clear how much difference 250 - 280psi would make? Presumably none on a preserved line, but perhaps a little on the mainline?

Now, about that lottery win.

Tobbes

 

A bit of both really. As she's not main line certificated we don't need AWS and we've always displayed her in a "pre AWS" condition. We still have the bits and bobs so we can fit them if either circumstances dictate or we wish to display her in a "post aws" condition.

 

Two reversers?

Keith

 

Well some folk claim they were unreliable

 

Touche, Keith - thanks for that! Now edited for stupidity....

Tobbes