Fleetwood

The links worked fine thanks but it seems I failed to properly navigate the sites.

 

I doubt the Bombardiers wil be doing 40 down the prom and through the middle of Fleetwood so if a Balloon car can hit 40 on the reserved sections I can't see the plastic replacements being that much faster. I suppose it's all about accessibility in the end.

 

Ah, so that's why he was clambering in and out of it yesterday afternoon! Nice of him to wind the blind round to Fleetwood too later on.

I only decided on Friday evening to go up there, and luckily managed to get a reasonable b&b about 10 minutes walk from North station. Did both of the tours yesterday, but due to the late running my dad and I had to bail at Fleetwood on arrival of the second one to get back to Blackpool for the last train home. Still, overall a good day, just a shame about the late running of the first tour, which scuppered things a bit later on.

Photos will be up later this evening if I get a chance.

 

I and many other people who live in Blackpool would strongly disagree with that statement !

 

I knew some enthusiasts may disagree but as it seems to have significant closures every winter it can not really be justified as essential to the all year round transport in Blackpool. The current system is ideal for tourist purposes and perhaps with some really heavy refurbishment of the current fleet (new electrical systems etc) a fortune could be saved on new trams and infrastructure.

Out of interest are council free OAP passes excepted on the trams yet? If not bet they will be when the new trams come along as the increased ridership will be useful in the post capex review!

 

Nope, old fart bus passes are not valid on the trams.

 

Bombardier is the right supplier and the one I hoped for, rather than the expected so called low cost trams. They are marked leader and make some excellent modern trams. Speed increases will come from accleration and braking rather than increased top speed. The maximum allowed on the Fleetwood streets was a pitiful 12mph - even if buses and cars are allowed 30mph. No doubt with much more effective braking the new cars will bump this up a bit. Likewise on the Prom - max speed 16mph.

I'm not sure about the rumour of the track impacting on old car operation in Fleetwood. Given that much of the other sections laid in tram rail (Pleasure Beach to Central Pier and Gynn to Cabin) have already been done, I would have thought that the rail in Fleetwood would be the same. Trouble is reliable information has not been easily forthcoming thus speculation results.

Paul.

 

Only for Lancashire, Blackpool and Blackburn with Darwen residents. Highly likely that the scheme will include the trams from 2012 to allow a reduction in the parallel bus service.

 

As a resident, I use the trams quite often, especially from home to work nr Broadwater in Fleetwood. Loosing that facility in winter is a pain. Lets remember that Blackpool trams serve the local community and do not just run for tourists or enthusiasts

 

I do agree that the Bombardier things at least look like trams, albeit continental ones. Let's hope they have more in common with Supertram than Metrolinik.

I like the idea of faster acceleration and better braking on the prom and streets increasing average speeds. Its typical boffin speak with no regard for actual traffic conditions.

There will be just as many stops and starts in the working day, and I'll bet that the average speed on the prom and Albert St doesn't rise one iota in reality. No-one is going to increase the speed limit between Pleasure Beach and Gynn Square and risk standing in court to justify it at an inquest.

Let's be honest - the prom is dangerous not because of the trams, but because the public have no idea how big a tram is, or even that there is one about, let alone the continuing "Bradley" factor.

Albert St just isn't long enough for an increased speed limit to make more than about a minute's difference overall.

As to the new overhead not being fitted with trolley pole friendly frogs etc, lets get this in front of the councillors and tourist bodies now to make sure that the minimal additional cost of including such fittings, as against restrictive equipment, is included in the works contract, rather than being the subject of earnest handwringing in the future.

Blackpool and Fleetwood is a tourist area and restrictive design to save a few quid - and it will only be a few quid - and lose that sight of that factor is strategic nonsense.

 

Maybe we will have to agree to disagree, but taking 10 minutes of a 11 mile line means that a minute saving on the roughly mile long Lord Street and North Albert Street section is all that's needed. We aren't talking about vast increases in speeds here, but very marginal ones. The current average speed is 10.5 miles. Roughly this is broken into:

1) Starr Gate-Cabin: 4.5 miles in 26 minutes 10.4mph. Max speed 16mph. 25 stops
2) Cabin - Fisherman's Walk 5.5 miles in 30 minutes, 11mph Max speed 30mph 30 stops
3) Fisherman's Walk to Ferry 1 mile, 7 minutes 8.6 mph, Max speed 12mph 6 stops.

Post 2012, Starr Gate to Cabin will be reduced to 15 stops. Cabin-Fishermans walk will reduce to 18 and the Fleetwood section to 3. Trams will have multi door boarding which will speed boarding and better acceleration and braking.

You could shave 10 minutes off the journey time by:
1) SG-Cabin -4 mins to 22 mins. 12.2mph
2) Cabin-FW -5 mins to 25 mins. 13.2 mph
3) Fishermans Walk to Ferry -1 min to 6 mins 10mph.
All sounds entirely achieveable to me without haring through the crowds. Notably still slower than most other tramways with their own right of way or shared space with pedestrians.

 

There's nothing wrong with varying views

You just have to accept that you're wrong

What do you think the reality will be about the overhead?

 

As they saying goes, "you are all entitled to my own opinion"!

To be honest I don't think the overhead is a huge issue, there's always ways round things - in Brussels for example trolley fitted cars have been towed to particular sections of line for events if required and some museum cars have pantographs to enable them to cover other sections of the system. The section of the network near the museum is frog equipped for trolleys.

I should say though, I am not sure what the plans are re the overhead, but will endeavour to find out for sure in due course.

Paul

 

Right Paul -

How adventurous are you????

Rigby Road is a goner in due course

The new Starr Gate depot isn't going to hold the entire heritage collections of Blackpool trams

What would you say to a new museum and leisure complex at Fisherman's Walk.

A new hotel / museum / shopping / leisure complex accommodating modern museum practice and display, audio visual, trams, trucks, buses and cars with an outdoor exercise area to avoid VED complications would seem to be a great idea to float to Wyre B C as a tourist project.

Where would you put it - well - shift those pikeys next to Fishermans Friend and you have a start - or the old station site except that ABP would cry "expansion site"

Go on - think about it - somewhere for all those LTT toys

 

There's a leading question if ever there was one! I'll take the 5th amendment.

Sadly as this is the UK any such home needs to be sustainable - I am envious of European groups who have been given use of redundant depots at little or no cost. Any such venue in the UK would need to be low cost to build, maintain and operate. Unfortunately (as with the Starr Gate depot location) this really restricts you to sites that don't involve crossing roads as I think you would be into the T&W Act territory just to lay a connecting track!

Paul

 

I've uploaded outline details of the September 2010 anniversary events in Blackpool to the "Everything Else Heritage" section of the forum.

http://railways.national-preservation.com/showthread.php?t=21862

Paul