North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

You take my quote massively out of context. I was referring to the use of fire risk by the railway as a reason to not run steam traction in its comms, and that it was being proposed here that this was only or partly a cover story. I used the word hypothetically because I don’t know if the contention is true or not. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the risk of fire wasnt very high, only that there is inconsistent messaging - make of that messaging what you will.

 

There is a definitive map of the extent of the SSSI's. My undertanding is that when the railway closed some areas between the boundary fences were included in the designation i.e.including the cess on both sides and the trackbed on which the railway sits. When the NYMR later took over an operational railway it would have made sense to de-designate operational railway land. Unfortunately there is no process under the relevant legislation that allows an SSSI to be de-designated. To my knowledge the NYMR has found itself in trouble in the past whenn carrying out track repairs or replacement that led to parts of the cess being disturbed.

 

De-notification is possible, just highly exceptional and usually only occurs when the environment is changed irrevocably. But I think we may be in a cul de sac here. The SSSI worries don’t seem to be an issue when it suits.

 

Maybe Natural England have documentation of the fire-starting propensities of every steam loco in the country so they can sign off on the basis "Black 5 bad, Peppercorn A1 good?"

Tom

 

Well tornadoes are natural phenomena

 

At present, diesel overhaul costs are nowhere near that of steam. D9015 has had an incredible amount of work done to it over the last 29 years - bodywork, mechanical and electrical - and it's "only" cost around £100,000. 50027's main generator needed an overhaul, £17,000. The advantage is full overhauls are rare, and parts and components can be overhauled and replaced constantly while keeping the loco in traffic, no need for a complete strip down every 10 years with a massive bill at the end of it.

But as you say, once the supply of spares dries up, that's when it'll start to get expensive. I think that's quite a way off though, and other locos will be stripped for spares to keep others in traffic. 31123/D5541 was preserved at GWSR for a few years until it suffered an engine failure. It was sold on and stripped of all useful parts, then scrapped. It won't be the last to go that way.

D7628 needs its generators overhauled and various other repairs, reportedly at a cost of £90,000. It'll be interesting to know how much has been spent hiring in 37688, 31128 and 47077 over the past few years, rather than prioritising the repairs to D7628 and completing the overhaul of D5032.

 

If you are going to disagree with everything @Lineisclear says, at least have the decency to quote him accurately and not insert spurious apostrophes.

 

I was careful to change the quote to a form that was readable and preserved the gist of what he was saying. It would not have made sense if I had simply cut and pasted it. I was careful to not change the meaning and context.

Here is the original quote:

...but its interpretion of the Wildlife and Countryside Act (which post dates all those mentioned to by Kirk Oswald) is that its consent is required for any operations that may affect an SSSI (including sections of the trackbed).

and here is my abbreviated version:

"it's interpretation is that it's consent is required..." I think that really encapsulates what was being said. I will admit to having added the apostrophes, because I thought, perhaps wrongly, that "its" was being used in the original quote as an abbreviation of "of it" and aging recollections of school punctuation lessons suggested it was correct to add them, but I am quite happy to bow to your superior knowledge if I was wrong.

 

I have no problem with your position in the debate. However, messing up someone else's correct punctuation is a poor look.

 

Being on the receiving end of the odd apostrophe is not going to cause any upset! However, some posts by others seem unable to resist vituperative personal attacks which say a lot about their authors and, in my view, justify forum moderator intervention.

 

If i was thinking about volunteering at the NYMR, reading this thread would sharp change your mind.
I thought Golf Club politics were bad, this takes it to another level!!!!

 

Agreed! I expect, however, that we do share dismay at the fall in language detail adherence - although, as discussed previously on this forum, languages are living things, which evolve all the time (although the invention, and widespread adoption, of writing, has to a certain degree arrested that).

Although I agree wholeheartedly with that opening thought, I could not disagree more strongly with the latter. Such 'censorship' (which is what that would be, when one strips the politeness off of it) is, to me, a perfect example of the old saying 'the cure is worse than the disease'. (Apologies to all for the diversion here.)

Noel

 

I don't often get to the NYMR as it's a 5-6 hour each way drive from home and therefore a tricky one to squeeze in around family and work priorities, but I've been there a lot more than any other lines that far away and many closer to me too because I love it so much.

Many days when working from home I'll download the loco roster in the morning, work out my hypothetical moves then have the NYMR webcam feeds up on a spare screen on my desk so I can see how my day would've turned out. Today for instance I'd be enjoying guaranteed uphill thrash from a 31, a Black 5, a P3, a 37 (with a bit of main line running too) and a 9F, and I might even take a photo of a Duff too, all through some of the most epic scenery you'll get on any preserved line, and with a yard and shed to poke around in too.

That's a pretty standard day on the NYMR, and it's one of the best preserved line days out I can imagine.

All of which is such a contrast to the bleakness and fractiousness of the behind the scenes going on discussed on this thread, and that's a really sad thought.

 

Noel, it's not censorship. The crticism is not of the ideas but the way they are expressed. Many on line fora have moderated guidelines but it seems that on Nat Pres anything goes.

 

Unfortunately, there is fractiousness behind the scenes and I suspect it is going to get worse before it gets better.

 

Steve makes an important point and, as is usual with Steve, he is right to do so. The divisions are now so deep and so fundamental that I don't think they can be reconciled if nothing changes.

I'm very clearly on one side of that division. I don't doubt Lineisclear is equally committed to the railway - he has been for at least as many years as myself and perhaps even longer but divison there remains and I don't think anything less than a complete restructure will resolve the matter. We may both support SSSIs but I don't think there is much other common ground.

A few posts earlier Guy Carr mentioned that if he considered volunteering the bickering would give him concerns, for which I can't blame him. Personally I volunteered for around 30+ years, not constantly and certainly not as often as many others, but despite having given up that activity I still care passionately about the line. The flip side of the coin is that I gave up through utter frustration with policies emanating from the apparactciks based in Park Street who not only seem clueless about railway operations but PR obsessed, financially inumerate, clueless in business and bereft of any skills in human relationships. I became thoroughly fed up of being asked to actively turn away custom which once would have been welcomed.

I retain the hope that one day, the sooner the better, that I will find it possible to resume volunteering but I won't return to the fold whilst those who are leading the railway towards the edge of destruction are still calling the tune.

I feel so strongly that I have changed my will. I've no intention of kicking the the bucket for a little while yet but if I do I should spin in my grave to think of it being squandered on administrative salaries, Spanish bank interest charges or subscribing to plastic Oscar ceremonies.

If it was just me who had lost faith it wouldn't really matter, I've never been an important wheel in the NYMR machinery. I'm sure Lineisclear, our current CEO and others in Park Street would designate me as a spanner in the works. The point is that it isn't just me, there are dozens (no exageration I assure you) on the staff of the railway who feel much the same. Business leaders in Pickering are trying to find ways to get rid of the SMT because of damage to the local economy. There is corresponding concern in Grosmont due to much reduced footfall this summer. It needs people in volume that the railway used to bring to keep the Co-Op (oldest in the UK) open. Grosmont House has been for sale fot over two years with few railway guests. Three coffee shops / tea rooms struggle to share a declining number of patrons. Two pubs that without railway the village won't be able to support.

On the railway itself there is open rebellion. In 30 years there have been many problems of course but I have never, ever seen morale so low. Despite all my criticisms I sincerely hope that my fears won't come true, but unless there are changes NOW it will be too late.

 

I think a moderation of tone is needed in some cases(sometimes guilty as charged m'lord!) but I do noften menacing complexity."ot want to see the forum descend to the level of absurdity of some parliamentary debate - I would have to type "terminological inexactitude" when a shorter word would suffice. On the other hand "economical with the truth" and "marked by a senseless, disorienting, often menacing complexity" could be very useful in this current discussion - provided one does not assume "menacing" to infer physical violence......

 

The SSSI argument is an interesting one, and I'm not going to pontificate on how valid or not it is at the NYMR, as every railway is different.
But the GCR managed to keep steam running all summer, barring a couple of weekends (and I think a few weekday services were cancelled, but that was more about passenger comfort in the heat, rather than the use of steam). And the GCR crosses Brazil Island (in the middle of Swithland Reservoir), which not only is an SSSI, but which actually suffered a significant fire this summer (caused by trespassers, mercifully for the GCR on a non-operating day, so there was no doubt they weren't responsible). GCR volunteers actually assisted the fire brigade in gaining access to the island via the railway. And the following weekend, steam ran as usual.
As I said, every railway is different. But SSSIs and steam clearly can co-exist even in a time of heightened fire risk. Where there's a will, and all that.

What does seem strange about the NYMR's steam woes this summer is that 29 was apparently available, but barely used. Surely it would have been better to have run that, even with a shortened set, or a diesel on the back assisting, than not?

 

"It's" is a contraction of "it is".
"Its" is possessive, and it's confusing because possessives usually require an apostrophe.
I find the best way to remember it is as part of a triumvirate: his/hers/its - none of which have an apostrophe, and nobody ever gets the other two wrong.