If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Fire Risk

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Oswald T Wistle, May 9, 2025.

  1. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2020
    Messages:
    2,223
    Likes Received:
    2,550
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thameslink territory
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Fascinating!
    Seems a logical idea.
    You'd want to make the top fixing pretty good, if it failed you'd have sparks and hot-oil-covered ball-bearings raining down on you, which might be quite exciting.

    I wonder what the downsides are. Obviously maintenance (as stated), but presumably some loss of efficiency as well.

    I really hope someone is looking at that right now
     
  2. burmister

    burmister Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    293
    Incomplete combustion will always occur in practice due to wear/incorrect operation etc in Solid and Non Solid Fuels leading to problems at the Chimney or Stack/Funnel be it smoke or still burning droplets of vapourised/solid fuel. (and also seen on Diesel Engines) Fluidised Bed burners would cut this risk down but I cannot remember any build on offer suitable for the larger turndown ratios and small outputs that a small Railway Boiler requires. They were for Power Station and Large Steam ships.
    One risk I have not seen mentioned in converting Locomotives from coal to oil is the risk of blowback and firebox explosions when relighting after flame out. Dirty/worn burners leading to mounds of glowing carbon in the firebox or even pools of oil on the furnace floor was not uncommon. Unless the fireman was very conscientious in his purging and avoided simply trying to flash off to relight he was risking a very bad day at the office.
     
    The Gricing Owl likes this.
  3. The Gricing Owl

    The Gricing Owl Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2023
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Owl, SR steam gricer and full time dinosaur
    Location:
    5,500 miles from 25NC 4-8-4s in the winter Karoo
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Re-issues with oil firing. With oil-fired main line steam heritage locos still operational in Germany (well I think so) there should still be good experience over there to learn from. Part of the cost and time of evaluating it and seeing if it could be a partial solution in the UK.

    Bryan
     
    andrewtoplis likes this.
  4. Rander

    Rander Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    159
    D213 (40013) at the head of The Fellsman today. Of course, it has rained for quite a lot of the morning in Carlisle (and heavily on Monday night).
     
  5. The Gricing Owl

    The Gricing Owl Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2023
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Owl, SR steam gricer and full time dinosaur
    Location:
    5,500 miles from 25NC 4-8-4s in the winter Karoo
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As for when steam will return to the main line and on those heritage railways that have (very sensibly IMHO) stopped using steam, it isn't just fire risk.

    If this dry weather keeps going into the Autumn, at what stage will water resources in some parts of the country become such as to see restrictions on its use intensified.

    It could be hard to justify using motive power that requires a lot of water when alternative forms of motive power that do not require a lot of water are available.

    And I am a 100% steam man through and through.

    Bryan
     
    Devonbelle likes this.
  6. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    3,731
    Likes Received:
    6,554
    Location:
    Powys
    Nature has a funny way of balancing itself...

    Climate change will bring extremes - warm air and record breaking sea temperatures mean more intense rain storms. That of course can lead to other problems - just ask the Severn Valley..

    https://www.netweather.tv/weather-f...l-nino-may-bring-a-wetter-than-average-autumn
     
  7. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    3,200
    Likes Received:
    5,800
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The justification is mentioned elsewhere in this forum: the drop-off in passenger numbers when diesel replaces steam. Whatever the issues, unless the passengers turn up and buy their tickets, you're running your diesels at a loss, which cannot go on indefinitely. There isn't a simple answer but substituting diesel haulage is far from a complete one and doesn't maintain the status quo.
     
    45698Mars and Spitfire like this.
  8. The Gricing Owl

    The Gricing Owl Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2023
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Owl, SR steam gricer and full time dinosaur
    Location:
    5,500 miles from 25NC 4-8-4s in the winter Karoo
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm not talking about any form of voluntary action by the heritage sector. I'm talking about what started to happen in 1976. Water being shut off, bottled water being made available (that happened near me in Kent) and also there was talk (only) of having to bring large ship tankers of water down from Scotland. Which could put the heritage sector under pressure, if not legislation, to stop using steam locos if the current situation in the south were to persist.

    Bryan
     
  9. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,217
    Likes Received:
    2,202
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired SPM
    Location:
    Close to Bridge 200
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There was also a government proposal of using rail tank cars to transport water from the North West to South Central England in 1976 . There were problems, only new vehicles or foodstuff rated tanks could be used, which limited the idea somewhat.
    Before anything could be formally proposed, it started raining. I suspect the wagon leasing companies would have ensured that they didn't lose money.

    I wish that I had kept the file, or at least a copy of the policy letter. It was in a large bundle committed to the Southern Region archives as "not active for 10 years" in about 1986 or 1987.

    Cheers, Neil
     
    Devonbelle, 5944 and The Gricing Owl like this.
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    24,105
    Likes Received:
    24,909
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Well all I know about August generally is that it is a more unsettled month than say June and July that often have fine spells. That seems to be what is happening in the north this year but to me the central European high pressure is so well established that the south of England may find that the rest of this month will be much as currently. Maybe some thunderstorms drifting north but little else to make Network Rail feel comfortable about steam south of the Wash to the Bristol Channel.

    We shall see.
     
    The Gricing Owl likes this.
  11. The Gricing Owl

    The Gricing Owl Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2023
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Owl, SR steam gricer and full time dinosaur
    Location:
    5,500 miles from 25NC 4-8-4s in the winter Karoo
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I do monitor the UK weather radar that also covers the Normandy area in France. That's where the storms that track sort of SW to NE across Kent come from. Nothing happening there at present. The last of those, a fairly mild affair on 27 June. I think I've already posted it here somewhere, but it seems relevant to also post it here; see below. If only to remind us of what a rain system can look like. That helped give SE above average rainfall for June - which I think must be why were are not yet a declared drought area - but SE Water were the first in the country to impose a hose ban this summer! I see the from the latest Met office report, the River Medway is still at normal level - but with a note suggesting (to me at least) that is due to water being released from Bewl Bridge Reservoir for SE Water to 'pick up' downstream.

    Bryan

    upload_2026-8-8_21-45-4.png
     
  12. The Gricing Owl

    The Gricing Owl Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2023
    Messages:
    2,252
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Owl, SR steam gricer and full time dinosaur
    Location:
    5,500 miles from 25NC 4-8-4s in the winter Karoo
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No sooner posted the above than activity started over that general area of France, including the Channel Island and this morning S to SSE of Normandy. Just a few light showers made the channel crossing and passed over the SE corner of England. And a larger rain system, but not storms, developed this morning, part of which got half way acoross the channel then decided to move East.

    Fingers crossed this soon resorts to the normal pattern I have monitored for some years now, and brings some noticeable rain to at least part of SE England.

    Bryan
     
    Devonbelle likes this.

Share This Page