North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

If your job/livelihood depends on the success of the NYMR, then surely that's all the more reason not to be constantly slagging them off on a public forum like this.

It's getting to the point where they could announce Mallard on a set of 12 teaks and you'd still find something to moan about.

 

And I would suggest that those that go out to see tours run by Saphos or RTC or whoever are there to see what is on the front rather than what is behind the loco, in the same way people attend Heritage lines, mainly for steam I believe or for the diesel brigade either if a specific loco is running or for a diesel gala.
As @21B rightly says as us the older generation fall off their perches do these heritage coaches belong with the next generation of travellers? Will they be more concerned if there are power points to charge their mobile devices.

I also do not get this mismatching coaches thing that a few seemed so concerned about. Mismatched stock still happens on the National Network, particularly prominent on SWR for years and I guess will now become so if "a token few" for each TOC or worse the whole fleet is repainted in GBR livery. Many modern trains have narrow windows, be what most are used to.

 

I refer you to 10 Downing Street

 

Unfiltered, self-defeating pomposity at its very finest. I need say no more than leave it as a monument to the reasoning behind the first sentence in mine.

 

You take a lot of photos of trains on the Swanage Railway - why do you bother? Would you still do the same if all trains were 156 units? Or are you a photographer who just like steam engines and couldn't care less what they are pulling at the time? If that's the case I suspect that you are in a minority and most people (obviously I'm guessing here!) prefer to see rolling stock that's in keeping with the loco and whatever livery it is painted in. The LSWR T3 to me looks painfully out of place with Mk 1 stock, although green examples are just about passable as being similar to Bulleid stock.

If you are right about the next generation's preferences, I fear for this country as a whole - the heritage sector is probably one of our largest industries left nowadays, and I've yet to see mobile device charging sockets at Stonehenge or Salisbury Cathedral - and no-one as yet carries a windmill or sizeable solar panel round for charging purposes when visiting them - are they too doomed to extinction before long? I hope not, I went on a trip on the SS Shieldhall last weekend, and there wasn't a single charging point on that either!

 

I think in your passion for heritage stock you over-estimate the public demand for it*. At any heritage railway, the majority of visitors will, quite frankly, not know whether what they are seeing is or is not authentic.

A very large number of railway enthusiasts are primarily focused on locomotives, and I've been to enthusiast events where the interest in coaching stock has been conspicuous by its absence.

The argument for heritage stock rests on authenticity, with an admixture of economics as the usable life of Mk1s is consumed and so their economic advantage over pre-nationalisation stock reduces.

* - this is a general point, where one person's passion for something doesn't always correlate to general interest in it. See the unbelievable continuing availability of many of this season's Proms for this being demonstrated.

 

I think, the most important things to typical visitors of heritage lines (not enthusiasts) are:

• That information provided is accurate, up to date, and easily accessible.
• That facilities are suitable on site - catering, toilets, etc
• That the train is of generally heritage nature. In many cases, steam locomotive is important for this point. Coaching stock is not worthy of this list.
• That staff are friendly, informative, and help to make the experience treasured.

I think complaints about lack of steam at the NYMR are justified, as this is on my list. I think any inaccuracies in publicity material are also quite severe, and are on this list. I think carriages are not that big of a deal to your average visitor. Maybe a hot take, but I think it's the volunteers and staff who make the experience memorable, more than anything else, apart from possibly the provision of a steam loco, and general adequacy of facilities.

 

The T3 would obviously look better with some more authentic stock behind it. But I have heard a lot of people (both locals and visitors) talk about the loco, I have yet to hear anyone even an enthusiast comment on the stock, although I know some have on here.
Would I photograph a 156, yes, but not often, in the same way I do not photograph the 117 that often, although I do have a bit of a soft spot for the 121.
I do not get that worried about the stock, because there is obviously not enough stock and locos to make everything authentic.
The Bluebell which used to be what I regarded as my local line when I lived in West London is probably in the top 2 of the amount of vintage stock, but even there authenticity if that is what you are striving for is not always on offer.
So which of these four images do you regard as authentic?. They all have wonderful stock and locos.

As an aside when I stewarding back around 2013 people were asking where they could charge their phone on a Mk1. Swanage now has a set with onboard wifi, not that is of interest to me as I do not have a mobile that connects to the internet. So I guess I am "heritage" in a way.

 

I suspect that I too, as a regular critic of NYMR management, must bear the brunt of your thoughts.

My excuse, if excuse I need, is that as a former volunteer across a 30 year timespan I saw first hand just how inept the senior management/CEO clique are at doing their job. They are frequently hostile to volunteers still working. They are hostile to those paid staff who are railway professionals if the latter dare to offer sensible advice based on years of experience. Personally, I tried to voice concerns quietly and privately to the Park Street managers. Sometimes concerns, sometimes misgivings but also positive suggestions. Mostly they were ignored, often dismissed and even rebuffed.

I don't resent those 30 years despite the way in which volunteers were so treated but I do resent that I was increasingly asked to lie to prospective customers. Mainly I worked on the platforms and would have to explain why trains as "computer says full" were departing with empty seats. I was asked "why diesel?" when disappointed families had seen the advertisement of steam but was only available to premium diners.

In the present financial crisis I see the need to be businesslike but the new regime hasn't grasped that the NYMR is in the heritage business and if you damage that heritage then frankly that's a doomed business plan.

The CEO I criticise personally for one simple reason - Her business approach might work well in corporate sales, merchant banking or holiday timeshares but it is wholly unsuited to an historical trust where reputational damage, unulfilled expectations and collapsing infrastructure aren't going to encourage return business. She comes from a commercial world and as such she should recognise that if you can't do the job then go elsewhere.

Others have already stressed the importance of Facebook, Trust Pilot, Twitter etc and, much as I dislike the ubiquity of such media they serve a purpose and if used positively they all have the potential to attract custom. Where the current management are getting it wrong is that they may all be PR experts but they are destroying the ethos that used to provide a heritage experience that was actually worth marketing.

You express your dislike of travelling with children. Again speaking personally I too like to travel whilst being able to listen to a hard working locomotive BUT families are the bread and butter which feed the railway so old fogeys like you and I can indulge our hobby. Whilst you're entitled to your opinion I don't think your attitude to family travel is sensible, financially sustainable or even remotely acceptable.

If management start to act responsibly and within the ethos of the trust I'll stop criticising. Meanwhile if they can't stand the heat then they need to be shown the kitchen door.

 

Ok, carriages. For me they need to be clean, and ‘look clean’ - ie no rips and tears etc; windows reasonably clean; opening toplights for sound; heating working in all carriages in winter; toilets working (on longer lines eg NYMR); tungsten lighting and period moquette. Phew!
After that I’m not too precious at to whether they’re Mk1’s or older. Yes I’d make an extra effort to travel on a teak set, or period LMS, GWR etc but it’s not a deal breaker.

 

My experience at the NYMR is that people travelling on the teak train do realise that it is different to, and older than, the Mk1s and on the whole they generally appreciate them for that reason.. There aren't enough of them to have more than a single train, sadly, and even that is now harder because two have moved on because the NYMR management no longer wanted them, but surely it is better to be able to offer something that is noticeably different to the ubiquitous MK 1s. Isn't that what railway preservation is about? It would be a sad day if Mk 1s were all that's in use by an educational charity.

 

My point about the case should have made clear that I do value authenticity, and regard proper preservation as vital.

However, I remain unconvinced that noticing pre-nationalisation stock is different implies recognising authenticity - they’re two different things. That is doubly so where paint is involved.