North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Whilst Whitby is not essential to the NYMR any decision to dump it would need careful consideration as those services do contribute to the operation as a whole. I agree with you that the tail should not wag the dog but that alone doesn't make it undesirable.

Both Tom, 35B and others have raised valid points about positive changes and these deserve urgent consideration, but the Park Street mandarins simply aren't listening.

At the moment revenue is essential so has to be maximised. What I would really like to see are accurate figures for both costs and income of the Whitby operation and, equally important the financial effect on the whole line. If it pays then not a problem, if it doesn't then in the current climate it's a luxury we must do without.

 

Maybe someone who is a member should "plant" a pre-registered question along the lines you suggest, and see what answer follows. I would do so, but have cancelled my membership, after over 50 years, because all it mostly got me nowadays was the wholly execrable new version of "Moors Line"

 

Sadly, in my own experience, simply running steam locos up and down does not turn a profit or drive high visitor numbers.

To give an example (sorry to keep drifting away from Yorkshire) the busiest I have ever seen Kingscote station on the Bluebell was when there were unicorns there. At least 5 times busier than Giants of Steam last year. And that was busy - I mean very busy. But the unicorns easily trumped it. The last train of the day is normally deserted. As soon as Fox & Edwards Fish and Chips arrive. the buffet car is taking thousands.

Events, especially those appealing to families, make money these days. That's why Whitby makes the money - a special attraction. Just running trains to Goathland has limited appeal to the average prospective visitor.

 

NYMR used to have a range of events.......

The diesel gala was discarded as the management thought it was a loss maker, until they tried it again and discovered the opposite, that it did make money.

A spring steam gala abandoned (probably impossible now due to lack of locos)

A Sixties weekend which attracted a good number, basically dressing up, a party and a car rally.

Wartime Weekend
Dangerously popular with thousands in attendance and most trains and stations packed. The sort of event other railways would long for. Abandoned because it didn't make money (!) How?

These events were all stopped under Chris Price's term as GM.

Last year finance's must have been boosted by the two major events, Gresley, and Scotsman. Both involved running steam trains!

Thomas must have seemed worth a punt, but surely not at the expense of regular running in Spring Bank Holiday week. Running the event must have brought in less money than running a normal timetable.
This event was more suited to October.

I would like to see traffic figures for events and transparency. The constant lack of openness seems hard to understand.

 

There is a theory ~(I think it has previously been expressed on here) that Chris Price left the NYMR because his wife wanted to move away from the area - I think there's some truth in that but not for the reasons publicly expounded, I think the reasons may have been different in reality, but that's immaterial) but I think that he had also come to realise that he was leading the railway into an ever-deepening crisis and had come to realise that it was beyond his skillset to reverse the problems, so he jumped rather than being ignominiously push at a later date. I really doubt whether he expected the current CEO to to replace him and continue down and accelerate the headlong plunge into the hole. I think that the fact remains that we need a CEO with creativity and the ability to lead and rally both supporters and paid staff to reinvigorate the railway. I, for one, do not feel that the NYMR's attraction as a heritage railway has collapsed, but I do believe that its marketing has fallen apart at the seams. I do think that the shrinking of the Trust Board to become a deliberately picked, smaller, group of yes-men and/or cowards unwilling to speak out has not helped. Let's hope that the numbers of those with actual knowledge of what is going on will start to grow from the next AGM onwards and we can start to see a turnaround. The CEO is a strong minded individual and it will take determined opposition to force her into changing her mind or, if it really has to come to it, to quit.

 

Swapping locos at Grosmont as you suggest is a nightmare to be avoided, especially as platform 4 is currently unavailable. For example, whichever train arrives first, the loco has to uncouple and run round and be stabled out of the way before the second train can enter the station. That creates a significant delay. The second train can then enter the station, the loco detach and go to a siding at that end to allow the other loco to attach, do a brake test and depart. The second loco can then run up the cleared platform line to couple onto the other train, do a brake test and depart. Depending on how slick crews and signalmen are, that whole event can take up to twenty minutes, certainly not less than fifteen.

 

Would it be possible for a non-mainline steam loco to run to Whitby (with certification but no equipment) if piloted by a mainline diesel? Would that help speed up the swap? Both can then run round at Whitby, diesel still leading, and quickly comes of at Grosmont, and steam continues to Pickering?????

 

No.

 

Tornado: The Steam Superstar is Back

£35.00 per round trip for normal passengers, £30.00 for members

Given it was only here last summer and the services we travelled on were lightly loaded, not sure what the "pull factor" is going to be to pay extra outside of the normal timetable.

 

Looks like an opportunistic, but desperate, measure to pull a rabbit from the hat.. I don't think the NYMR's management have realised that the more often it visits the more its "star appeal" will dwindle. I will welcome the, nowadays, rare opportunity to see an LNER design at work on the NYMR but I'm not sure it will bring the crowds out in force. If the teak coaches had been brought back into service by then it would have helped, but what are the chances of that happening?

 

What has Steve done to deserve this punishment?

 

It would be great to see Blue Peter on the line sometime soon

 

It certainly would, and for many that don't know, Tornado will be an adequate substitute, but for those who know, it will not be.

 

It depends on what you think the pull factor is of Tornado wherever it goes as it is no longer unique as a new build and its general media publicity is no longer there.
It is an event, which everybody keeps banging on about how the Moors needs more of, but I would suggest this sort of price point MAY actually be better in attracting custom. I would also like to think they the NYMR nay have achieved a good deal with the hire as since the split with WCRC it is not exactly doing much.

 

If it has become the menu, maybe that is because that is what the clientele want.
If Whitby generates full trains it becomes hard to see how those people would willingly switch to Pickering-Grosmont, as I doubt the delights of Grosmont compare with Whitby.

 

8 round trips on a red timetable, almost back to the good old days! For some reason I thought it might actually be used on normal services, such as on the 10.55 ex-Pickering to allow it to work the diner, and to alleviate some of the pressure on the home fleet. But no, still 5 steam locos (at some point) to cover 3 diagrams.

Today's roster has been updated since this morning, 2253 has gone out again on the front of 37688 on 13.30 from Grosmont.

 

May well negotiate with the wife for a pass out to spend a couple of days up there for that. Just hope it doesn’t go hot and dry again and result in a steam ban.

 

We all know why that is of course …..

 

I think that is tomorrow's roster - its earlier than usual, I know, but it does say Tuesday 9th June.

Peter