North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

I suggest that your observations of steam being "a luxury, rather than an expectation" go more or less to the heart of what is currently wrong a the NYMR's management level. I think it comes across that the operational departments are struggling to do their best, despite being allocated pitiful resources (if the loco department only gets 5K per steam loco, as reported by @Steve [and it's a figure I've heard before] how much do you think C&W or PWay get?), whilst the expanding "commercial " and "marketing" departments squander whatever money is brought in with their increasing numbers. The philosophy of what the NYMR should be, and what its customers expect, is blinding by its absence. These "management" people haven't a clue about what a heritage railway should be trying to do and offer, and describing them as managers really is an affront to the term - and perhaps the explanation why none of them engage in social media is actually now explained (@Lineisclear are you reading this?) - in a way it's fair, as no-one would enjoy being crucified, but at times it's necessary that, with everything going down hill, one has to learn from failure, pledge to do things differently and take whatever help and advice is offered. It doesn't have to be accepted or followed, but giving it measured and rational consideration would be a good start.

 

The NYMR said that lack of steam operation due to fire risk was responsible for poor visitor numbers in the early season 2025.

If steam is so important why is diesel substitution so accepted? I know it's early this year in terms of full line operation but does anyone know if the last service from Grosmont on Wednesdays (the busy train from Whitby) and first ex Pickering on Saturdays are expected to be diesel like last year because of operational convenience?

Jon

 

I'm afraid that I no longer have access to the WTT and rosters so I can't answer that one. It seesm to be the favourite at the moment to put a diesel on the 09.20 ex Pickering. It's interesting that they seem to be managing with 6 coach trains to Whitby which indicates a significant fall off in visitor numbers given that they aren't allowed to carry more passengers than they have seats.

 

On the upside it makes using 4MT tanks etc full line to Whitby more viable if the trains are 2 fewer in length, perhaps?

 

Does putting steam on 10.55 ex-Pickering and arrival back at 17.50 mean it can be done with one crew? Though looking at it again, that doesn't really leave any break time until about 4pm, so not ideal.

 

At my local line, the maximum for loco turns is 12 hours. The crew must book on 3 hours before off shed time, and 40 mins after on shed time. AIUI there is a relief crew rostered to run round the engine at the MPD end of the line so the crew gets a break after each trip. Therefore, the maximum operating hours for an engine would be 8, but that's if there's no shunting and no steam heat.

 

The nymr being short of working steam locomotives is nothing new, but availablity does appear to be gradually deteriorating. The line is very demanding and will expose an engine's weakness. Additionally running to Whitby adds a requirement.

Unexpected failures

825 failed very early in its ticket and is critical as it was Whitby capable.

The Q6 now repaired with a new cylinder is under going significant boiler work

80136 withdrawn early.

However since 2020 the following haven't been replaced having either moved, requiring overhaul, or stopped with long term issues

76079
80136
Q6
J27 (Now at Embsay)
1264
2005
825

The only exception being 44806 and 29.

No wonder there are availability problems.





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I don't think 2005 has been a regular resident for a lot longer than that. However, you can add 75029 to the list.

Currently under overhaul are 3672, 34101 & 80135. I can't see any of those being back by next year but would be overjoyed to be proved wrong. 3672 is largely a volunteer led project dependent on fundraising

926 is stopped for repairs.

 

The £5K figure I quoted was from 2023 if I remember correctly. It may be more or less, now.

 

If the loco situation is indeed as struggling as suggested, which it does seem to be, although this might not be a new problem. I would therefore suggest, but understand this may have already been considered or there be reasons for it not to be possible:
Use the Black Fives in rotation for Whitby work, joining and leaving every train at Grosmont.
Hire a couple of large engines, if they can get their hands on them - must be some Westerns lying around?
Use 29 on the internal set, along with hire engines - something like a 4 tank would cope. If hiring Westerns use on internal for brake pressures.

As far as I can see, for the red timetable should only need three engines. It seems that the nymr prefer to use about four engines often. My first thought would be crewing and is it also fitness to run? Most lines keep a loco to a set for the day - why don't the NYMR do this? Whitby obviously.

Or a stopgap solution, use 29 on the internal set all day, Black5 on the 09:20 off Pickering and stay on that diagram all day, and 37688 on the Grosmont diagram, staying on the set all day. You could use Black5 on the Grosmont set, if this works better for fitness to run, but you make the Pickering 9:20 diesel. You can diesel assist 29 if you need to.

 

I’m assuming/hoping that the £5k / yr / loco was the budget for spares only. Even so a couple of broken springs would eat that as you say. I can’t really see it being possible to stick to such a budget. I didn’t budget it in that way, but if I had I would have thought the number would have been more like £10k per loco excluding anything exceptional like say needing to change some stays.

 

I don’t know the details but I assume it was for materials only. As I said, it was said to me by a person who was very much involved in the engineering management during a conversation and was to illustrate the problems of keeping the locos operational. It was obviously a budget figure as part of the railways overall budgeting.

 

I assume the everyone must be seated is for the NR travel Steve, the same as a charter? Whilst I can understand why the NYMR or a tour promoter would not want there train rammed with standees, the ORR seem to have little concern on the network on a daily basis with overcrowded (sometimes to Japanese proportions from some of the GWR programmes) trains.

 

The requirement for every passenger to have a seat is part of the Reg 5 exemption from door locking. Clause 3 (vii) states: " the Company must ensure that passenger loadings do not exceed the total seating capacity available within the relevant Rolling Stock;" It does not require them to be seated at any time.

 

I wasnt disbelieving you or the other person, just expressing surprise that the budget would be set so low, and would certainly be hard work to stick to I think.

 

Thanks for that Steve and I can see some logic. However I understood it applies to CDL fitted stock on tours as well.

 

The Q6 is situation is a strange one, it sits out of traffic for 18 months runs for a couple of months and is then withdrawn for all of the crown stays to be replaced.
The crown stays won't have deteriorated in the short period back in traffic so how was their condition not spotted and repairs effected when the cylinder was replaced?

 

Sadly the heritage movement as a whole is majorly lacking spare in locos ‘sitting around’ even western ones. It’s the worst I’ve known it for years. If you want a hire for next summer you’d better start your negotiations now… admittedly, being mainline connected the moors might be able to get a Riley loco but the main summer season is upon us and everyone’s flat out. With some of the usage by certain locos at the moors I wonder if they are on on run and repair contracts or daily fee with minimum number of days a year agreed by contract. This could explain why some locos are used rather than no 29? Regarding loco springs, there an expensive item to repair now and lead times are not short, it makes you wonder if there are any pway issues? Sadly it all costs substantial amounts.

 

Probably because the problem was not anticipated at the time. I believe that those stays should have lasted longer than they did.

Peter

 

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We are delighted to confirm Tornado will be visiting the NYMR again this summer.

Tickets go on general sale on Monday 8th June. We look forward to seeing you there.