North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Thank you for that. That makes understanding the situation a lot clearer.

 

I do seriously worry for this railway. As it stands even if they get through this project their funds are going to be such a perilous state, with known big repairs to other bridges as well as the tunnel coming down the track, not to mention other infrastructure that's been put off in recent years. I hope for their sake fundraising as increased speed again now there is evidence of works going on, but even so they are so far down on the requirement with not lots of time to make up the difference. If they can't get passengers there to see the bridge again and put hands in pockets etc, I do wonder how much difference will be left to make up out of whatever reserves are left. Meanwhile how far back can the other projects realistically go before they too are critical?

 

My point exactly.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if it's true.

https://flic.kr/p/2rwSyyK

That ballast doesn't look in good condition, and there's a fair length of track under a concrete pad alongside the shed as well.

 

Id imagine that it's pretty low speed and could be kept going with spot replacements for many years if necessary tbh.

 

Well, that is the million-pound question (quite literally, in this case). The recent news of the person who withdrew a very large legacy is very worrying, when it comes to the outlook there. If that person's expressed views are widespread among the potential donor base (and I suspect they may be), the line is going to have a very tough haul, gathering the funds needed to do the non-optional civil engineering work it needs.

Which just goes to reinforce a point I've been trying to make for some time now - to a certain amount of incredulity here: heritage lines are generally not 'ordinary' businesses. How many 'ordinary' businesses can you think of that depend on voluntary contributions to keep functioning? And that's without getting into the question of volunteer labour - although the NYMR seems like it's 'sort of' trying to do without that.

Noel

 

My kids' school seems to rely on voluntary contributions (from parents) to keep functioning. And that's a state-run school nominally funded through taxation - and I most certainly pay more than enough of that.
I'm probably subsidising my employer too, by working from home a fair bit, for which privilege I provide electricity to run their computer, and a room in my house complete with desk and chair to use it in. Yes I save a bit on travel costs, but they are also saving on office costs, having shrunk the team from two floors in an office to about 1/4 of a floor through desk sharing. I don't recall being rewarded with a large pay rise when this happened, either.
There are a lot of areas of life where the money doesn't seem to add up. I'd like to know where it's all going.

 

Pensions. Social care. And a load of other stuff that has to be paid for regardless. Leaving too little money to cover the rest

 

Surely you realise how much it costs to run a really successful awards dinner? Those who are nominated to aatend a star studded event with all the status of an Oscar's ceremony deserve the best in life? After all £3490 + vat doesn't go far these days.

On the real railway of course they have the Golden Spanner awards, though I think the NYMR delegation came away with the bronze award for a spanner in the works.

Going back a few years there was a spoof on this forum about Railway Awards evenings and, with acknowledgment to the original source I've managed to dredge it up from the archives. I apologise for the thread drift from the NYMR but, even if a few years old, it does rather demonstrate where the NYMR potentates like to waste money.

"The night has arrived when Rail big-wigs all gather,
For a slap on the back and delusional blather.
The great and the good were all invited to come
But couldn't be bothered so please welome these bums.

EMT's table is short-formed as ever,
Not enough seats so they all cram together.
The Network Rail table was booked very late
They had 13 weeks notice but still got the wrong date

Franchises wilt like fast fading flowers,
How long will they last when Corbyn's in power.
The HS2 sentence has increased by 10 years,
As costs ever spiral it will all end in tears

Crossrails new schedule has gone down the drain,
Dalesrail can't roster just one weekly train.
Southern's gone soft and Arriva for sale,
All special charters are are programmed to fail.

Swansea unplugged from electic connection,
Northern has abandoned all sense of direction.
Delay-repay claims reach a record new peak,
The Tfl budget is up Chelsea Creek

Never mind passengers, ladders are best
Branson's East Coast has sunk and gone west.
The lesser bearded wonder no longer a factor
Virgins great empire no longer intacta.

Constituents rage and back benchers howl
All DfT letterheads are short of a vowel.
A cabinet reshuffle ? Hacks whisper she dares,
Christopher Grayling is saying his prayers.

RMT strikes and Trans-Pennine bluster,
The industry's fine but to hell with the customer.
Trains running too late to make station calls,
All Rail's Cinderellas shall spout PR balls."

 

I think that point is interesting. At a certain level, if you appoint a new manager, then you should respect their professional judgement in respect of the area for which they are managing. But you would also hope that the board, on receipt of significant change of stance about the lifecycle of some major asset, would at least satisfy themselves that that change of stance was justified, particularly when the knock-on impact to the very viability of the railway's commercial model is at stake.

One can only assume that the new broom was adequately questioned to provide the reassurance that closure was essential and there was no other possible mitigation.

Tom

 

So, June the 1st for full-line running. As predicted earlier this year.

Less than a fortnight ago they were telling the the people of Grosmont it would be open by May.

 

Unfortunately, the work required to resume services over the bridge will not be completed until June.

V3.1 of timetable appears. so that means we have had 10 versions (so far).

V1.0, V1.1, V2.0, V2.1, V2.2, V2.3, V2.4, V2.5, V2.6, V3.0, V3.1

NYMR_Timetable_2026_A6_v31.indd

 

You also benefit from a reduction in income tax by using your home as an office.

 

That possibility is much closer than most members realise. The most upto date accounts reveal a £250,000 loss and the year before it was £500,000. This year is likely to exceed both those figures simply because the line isn't fully operational. Half term was non-existent, Easter very poor and the upcoming Thomas Event seems to feature the diesel railcar on half-hearted shuttles. You don't make money by under utilising assets.
If a 4 year old wants a steam ride mummy and daddy will go elsewhere next time.

Almost certainly Bridge 42 will need loans to repair it, especially if it to be completed over Winter 2026/Spring 2027. Probably some grant funding may be forthcoming but it's difficult to see where from. £10m from past bridge appeals has been spent and the National Lottery, North Yorks Council or central government aren't likely to think the railway is entitled to yet more so soon after the last handouts.

The railway is in hock to Santander up to it's neck and still sinking. Santander will only lend more if it thinks loans are secure, and I do mean secure loans as in secured on the railway's assets. If Park street is sold off so much the better but what about the stations, the cottages, the locos? The supporters of the Llangollen would, ten years ago, have thought going into administration unthinkable but it happened. The survivors there have pulled together magnificently to recover but it has set the line back years.

Seriously I think we are looking at a much shorter railway in the near future. If Bridge 42 is funded then I think future running might be confined to Goathland - Grosmont, possibly Whitby if Northern don't want more paths for their services. Pickering is a lovely market town but not exactly a tourist hub. Levisham has a wonderful atmosphere but is a hell of a trek from anywhere useful. Goathland is the visitor draw and mainly from those already staying in Whitby, though even in Goathland the Heartbeat generation are increasingly thin on the ground if not under it.

Sooner or later the railway needs to move into survival mode and it would be better to do that by choice rather than risk the bailiffs and asset strippers. The management have spent, borrowed and spent again and not always on essentials. Do we need a marketing department whose byline is "autocar limited capacity", do we need a CEO who wouldn't know one end of a Co-Bo from the other. They remind me of that football pools winner from the 1960s who said she was going to "spend, spend,spend" and was bankrupt as a result.

Management need to wake up and smell the coffee because your last gala awards supper is closer than you think.

 

The survivors there have pulled together magnificently to recover but it has set the line back years.
Seriously I think we are looking at a much shorter railway in the near future. If Bridge 42 is funded then I think future running might be confined to Goathland - Grosmont, possibly Whitby if Northern don't want more paths for their services. Pickering is a lovely market town but not exactly a tourist hub. Levisham has a wonderful atmosphere but is a hell of a trek from anywhere useful. Goathland is the visitor draw and mainly from those already staying in Whitby, though even in Goathland the Heartbeat generation are increasingly thin on the ground if not under it.

Sooner or later the railway needs to move into survival mode and it would be better to do that by choice rather than risk the bailiffs and asset strippers. The management have spent, borrowed and spent again and not always on essentials. Do we need a marketing department whose byline is "autocar limited capacity", do we need a CEO who wouldn't know one end of a Co-Bo from the other. They remind me of that football pools winner from the 1960s who said she was going to "spend, spend,spend" and was bankrupt as a result.

Management need to wake up and smell the coffee because your last gala awards supper is closer than you think.[/QUOTE]




I would disagree with you about Pickering, maybe in itself it's not a major tourist attraction but there are a few which are close to Pickering than other NYMR stations and quite a lot of holiday accommodation in that area. We have always gone from Pickering and there always seemed to be a reasonable number joining there.

 

Whilst I largely agree with many of the points you've made recently, I disagree on this. Pickering is important because it's the closest part of the railway to York, and the motorway network. At the time of writing, York to Pickering is just over a 35 min drive whereas York to Grosmont is an hour. Additionally, Pickering's actually pretty well located for people to base themselves for a holiday as it is itself only 35 minutes from Scarborough, has the castle, the railway, Flamingo Land, Eden Camp and even Castle Howard not too far away. There are a handful of campsites nearby as well as B&Bs.

This thread's already discussed how the NYMR has become effectively a Park and Ride service for Whitby, and trains from the coast inland are lightly used except in the later afternoons when people are returning home from a day out, so there's clearly not huge demand for Whitby to Goathland.

Run Grosmont - Goathland and you return to being effectively a 'Nowhere to nowhere' railway, cutting out a huge proportion of your potential customer base.

 

I also feel from our visits that most of the accommodation is at the Pickering end, and as apparently trains from their to Whitby are full presumably that reflects it.
The railway will know how many tickets it sells from Whitby to Goathland, but I suspect it is not that many out of the pax figures (whatever that secret figure may be).
Perhaps like the WSR it is by default a long line with the sea at one end and a lot of infrastructure in between.
Maybe the existing model works going forward or maybe it does not. But I suspect it is a long line that may tell us first.