Embsay and Bolton Abbey Railway Updates

This was was also evident at the Hunslet gala last year when we visited, a single coach for "normals" and the rest of the train for the exclusive use of Caledonian Travel, even when they were not travelling!!!

Which basically meant you had 1 normal set, 1 freight set and the single coach on the dining set to pick from.

Assume they will repeat this at the gala later this year, rather than knock Caledonian Travel on the head for a single weekend.

Mind you, Ravenglass are also still using 2020 methods and haven't returned to day rover tickets

 

Unfortunately for you guys the likes of Caledonian Travel provide a very regular and worthwhile source of income to the railway and as a result its finances have improved no end. I get the impression that you are assuming that as a heritage railway it will cater for your needs when it is operating regardless of the fact that this is not what is advertised. If you definately want to travel you have to book your ticket in advance, otherwise just accept the fact that if the train is full you will get left behind. Tour operators regularly have block bookings on these trains which they pay for regardless of the fact that they may not use their full quota. I hope that you do not expect the railway to double book the seats.

Bottom line is that I cannot see anywhere that Embsay advertise that you can just turn up and travel at will. They will accomodate you if they can but you have to accept that this often may not be possible. This is the way things operate in the 2020s, as opposed to in "the good old days" of fifty years ago.

Peter

 

I quite agree with your point about block bookings, indeed advance bookings of any kind. However that should never mean that on the day passengers are turned away. In the current economic climate preservation needs every penny of revenue it can get it's hands on and provide as many seats as they call sell.

This is a lesson the NYMT learned, only after utter stupidity, during the "computer says full" fiasco a couple of years ago. It cost much revenue, several disillusioned volunteers and a severely dented reputation among both tourists and enthusiasts.

 

I visited Embsay in September. It was clear that the income on a normal termtime weekend operating day was almost entirely driven by coach parties and, talking to a couple of staff there, that the railway gets block bookings that are very remunerative. That's changed the operating model a lot, and it is not now set up well for casual visitors. Unlike NYMR or R&ER, this is not about pre-bookings being required "because...", but because the railway has found a good regular source of income that does it very well.

They've shifted their operating model to support that, and it works for them - though I think the communications could be a lot clearer for turn up and go visitors, on the website and at Embsay station.

Where I agree with the above post is about what happens when the wind changes and the coach parties stop. At the moment it's a golden goose; if the parties stop, I fear that there will be black hole in visitor numbers which would be very challenging to repair.

 

Its not how the majority of heritage railways operate in the 2020's. They did during covid, but we are long since over lock down. Take the GCR for example they take block bookings and they allocate a coach, but there are no restrictions on turning up on the day, and usually only for a specific train.

As I said if this is how they want to operatre because of the revenue tours bring thats fine. I just won't visit again. They've taken a business decision to priorities tours and experiences so thats fine, but my review is more of a heads up to other enthusiasts what to expect.

 

The communication on the website is poor. No wonder there's no proper timetable like you'd expect to find because of how they operate. When you get to Embsay its like they are not expecting visitors that haven't prebooked as well. The old ticket office is closed and you have to go into the shop.

They never used to operate this way as I've called several times when just passing by. Will the coach companies survive if oil prices double over the next few weeks as its predicted it might? Their business model is then completely broken with no quick way to recover revenue if you've discounted those potential vistors previously.

 

The day I visited, the two of us were virtually alone as turn up and go visitors - all the business was on the pre-booked trips. It is easy to see why the effort goes where it does.

I hope it works overall for them

 

Well based on the fact that from my experience from viewing coaches at Swanage, and my wife's from 3 or 4 coach tours in the last two years it is a market segment that is likely to be hit far later than sooner, due to the fact it is mainly old people who I suspect have a reasonable amount of disposable income or they would not be on them in the first place.

But if the coach companies cannot afford the fuel price Joe Pubic miraculously will?

 

Not saying all the public will be able to afford the fuel increase when coaches won't, but limiting your client base isn't good business practice as if that revenue stream goes then your business is dead in the water.

 

But what if the train is full, and they don't do standing passengers? What else can they do, but turn last-minute arrivals away? Add on another coach (if they have one) at the last minute?

Noel

 

They don't have the option, due to the platform lengths (already extended at Embsay), and they run more or less fixed formations.

 

What a grumpy lot we are! what if? What if? I think I need a new hobby, this continual moaning is really depressing

 

The problem with alienating one sector of your customers, in this case enthusiasts, is that it limits the resilience of the business. You can be sure that if the line suffered a major infrastructure failure (landslip, bridge etc), they would be appealing to the public for money to help get them out of the predicament. I suspect it is unliklky the coach companies would donate to such an appeal and the disenfranchised enthusiast market may feel less inclined too.

 

With last minute arrivals, I see your point but that isn't what I posted. If a train is due to have a large pre-booked group or if there are significant numbers of pre-booked individuals then any competent railway will make sure there is sufficient "turn-up-and-go" capacity as well.

Any railway that turns away custom, or even discourages it, is depriving itself of income from disappointed customers who not only walk away once but probably won't return again..

I speak from personal hands-on experience at the NYMR where, two years ago, volunteers were turning away money because a computer said seats were pre-booked. Trains left part empty and we looked utterly foolish.

That year the NYMR lost £500,000. No surprise it's now struggling to fund repairs to Bridge 42.

 

Now I'm on my laptop rather than my mobile I've checked the website again and I think the actual experience differs from what is advertised.


Do I need to book tickets online?
We have ticket offices which are open on the day of travel which sell tickets and First Class upgrades.


Do I have to get a particular train?
On some special event days then your ticket is only valid for the particular train as advertised on your ticket. With a standard ticket, it does not matter which train you return on - however to return on the vintage train (when running) a first class upgrade is required.

It also mentions about breaking your journey and going for a walk.

I think they need to update the website to reflect the reality so that visitors aren't disappointed like I was.

 

My wife and had a similar experience at the W&L a couple of years ago. In the queue to buy tickets at Llanfair the family in front of me was told that the train was fully booked. They turned around and went back to their car. I was then told the same story - and "No" they couldn't add an extra carriage as the train "wouldn't get up the hill". Having driven a fair way to get there I decide to go on to the platform anyway and take a few photos - when, to my surprise the train appeared to be half empty. Fortunately I collared the Duty Manager as he was handing over the staff to the loco crew and I asked what was going on. Apparently this was also a computer malfunction and the booked coach party was on a different day. I resisted the temptation to say "For God's sake tell your ticket office then!".
We got our ride but it left a bad impression and I wonder how many times this has happened and how much money was lost as a result.
Ray.

 

Which day was that? On the Friday, the full dining set was available. Didn't know about them blocking it out, that's ridiculous.

I say full... it's a 6-car set of which the middle two are catering vehicles so no passenger accomodation and you cannot walk through. So on a line where you are maxed out at 6 coach trains, only 4 are available on the dining set. Does any other railway use a pair of catering vehicles on their dining train rather than just the one?

 

I had exactly the same experience at Llanfair. I was told the train was full and I couldn't travel even though I could see it was at best 1/3 full about 2 mins before departure. I queried this and was told it was the return from Welshpool that was actually full and that if I got a later train back I could travel. In front of me a family of four had been turned away without being offered the opportunity to travel on a later return train. Ridiculous way to run a railway.

 

As I was in the area, I popped by the North Norfolk Railway on Sunday only to find Sheringham ticket office closed with a note to say all tickets were sold out - so there is another example of a railway turning away on the day trade. Judging by recent Trip Advisor comments I wasn’t the only one.

Still, I saved some money, and went away with the warm glow of knowing the railway was in the enviable financial position of being able to turn away potential trade!

Andrew