North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

I reacted to what you wrote. That’s all.

 

Ok, now you may react to what I clarified for you.

you went straight to a company/railway/society implementing it essentially in bad faith and imposing it, whereas I was assuming, possibly foolishly apparently, that a railway/company/society might decide to do something after properly thinking it through and consulting everyone then need it to happen because it’s what the majority want. After thirty years in railway preservation societies I’d like to think it was mostly the latter.

 

Also, you never know who the person who is your guest might be- they might be a person who would consider volunteering, or a person who might consider making a donation one day.

On a more personal note;
We had a lovely experience on the NYMR a few years back, the fireman on 'Repton' invited my daughter on the footplate whilst static in one of the stations and had her sat in the driver's seat (she was ecstatic).

The fireman let her put a couple of very small shovels on the fire with his help.

Completely made her weekend.

She still talks about when the "Kind fireman let her try the shovel on the big engine".

First impressions count- and inspiring the next generation is paramount to steam railways surviving.

 

How kind. Same response. It’s about balance. You have to balance the needs of the crews, the training needs and the opportunity to earn money. Sensitivity is required to the likely fact that footplate crews may not be the most willing customer facing staff. There’s not much you can do about that.

 

In my earlier post I mentioned a driver who did not want footplate experience people on his locomotive. For the avoidance of doubt, in my experience, most NYMR crews are quite happy to take them.

 

I agree the dislike of footplate riders is rare, but we did end up with them on every trip at one point on my line and then the resentment grew rapidly.

 

Even the Moors isn’t that greedy. Yet.

 

That's probably only because the thought hasn't occurred to them yet, though. Give 'em time!

 

If there are any railway enthusiasts still hanging on to the belief that they are a bigger market for heritage railways* than the desire of Fashionable Dad, Yummy Mummy, Knowledgeable Grandad (Because He Remembers Life Before The Internet) and the 2.4 Bloggs weans** to 'ride on a steam train', then the NYMR's 2026 fare structure will surely put the final nail in the coffin of the delusion?

I don't blame the NYMR for charging more outwith the school holidays (aka the marketing deceit/conceit of appearing to discount during the school holidays), despite the fact that I'm in the minority of customers who deliberately takes holidays outwith the school ones (to avoid the Bloggs clan), therefore will be one of those penalised. Given the main market, it makes commercial sense.***

However, there is one thing I don't understand. What if I want to do a full Grosmont - Pickering round trip, but from an intermediate station? Say Goathland>Pickering, Pickering> Grosmont, Grosmont>Goathland, but without wanting (and therefore paying the extra £15+ for) a day rover?

Do I rock up at Goathland ticket office and (A) buy a return two stop ticket (to Pickering) and a return one stop ticket (to Grosmont) at the same time (£24.95+£14.95=£39.90)?
Or do I (B) just buy a return three stop ticket (£34.95) which covers Grosmont to Pickering?

Any ideas?


* A belief filed by most rational individuals alongside Santa Claus and the tooth fairy decades ago.
** All with volume turned up to 11 for the duration.
*** Despite the C word being about as acceptable as a different C word in enthusiast circles (look at any thread about the NRM).

 

In the light of the Iran war, will oil burning become significantly more expensive?

I'm not sure what grade of oil is used.

 

From my house just south of Leeds at 15:50 on a normal working Tuesday, Pickering is 70 minutes whilst the ELR station at Bury is 99 minutes. But the point is absolutely valid, that there's a section of West Yorkshire where they're in competition. But it's not just those two...

As the owner of 2 under 5s, the youngest of whom loves trains, I've just had a look at the booking for the DOWT event. When I eventually found the link to it, it's priced at £21.45 for an adult and £24.75 for a child 2+. So for a family of 4, it's £92.40 for a <15 minute round trip of just under 2 miles after driving 70 minutes.

By comparison, if we were to drive 70 minutes to Embsay instead for their Paddington event, for £61.48 we could have a full round trip on their c. 4 mile line and meet Paddington. And actually for me it would cost less because their threshold for paying for kids is 3 years old, where the NYMR is 2, and my youngest is 2.

Now I appreciate that hiring a loco in to play Thomas (of which there are only I think three in the UK - Dave, HC 1800 and the one in Scotland) is much more expensive than someone in a bear suit but my point is - if I'm paying you almost £100 for a train ride, even if I was only driving the 40 mins from York (the nearest major population centre) I would want more than is being offered!

 

Not meaning to have thread drift but there is another 3 Thomas I can think of... East Anglian Railway Museum, Bucks Railway Centre and East Lancs.

 

York to Embsay driving time varies between 50 minutes to 2 1/2 hours depending on time of day and on a BH Weekend whether or not Doris and Eric are out for a Sunday perambulation.

 

And HC 1800 isn't an official Thomas for the purpose of DOWT.

 

Exactly, it's Thomas, rather than Thomas the Tank Engine.

 

No, but it means it isn't subject to a licensing fee (as long as no other characters are used). The Rev Awdry named it himself, and thus it is in some ways THE Thomas...

 

Apologies for the extra thread drift but just to add more context. HIT Entertainment once tried to sue the Nene Valley Railway over the use of that engine in Thomas events arguing a trademark breach. Thanks to the proof they had of the engine being named by the Rev Awdry himself the case was dismissed though as is said, on condition that any event isn't in the same 'Days Out With Thomas' guise with other characters. I believe this also prevents the hire to other railways (IIRC), though in fairness they are normally using it themselves any chance they can get.

 

I believe they also tried to say that the Bluebell couldn't have an engine named "Stepney", until it was pointed out that the loco had first borne that name around 90 years before the book was written and therefore had prior claim!

It always felt to me that when the ownership of TtTE changed to HIT, they rather lost the plot about the tie in with heritage railways. I fully understand the need to make money from the franchise, but I suspect a more enlightened owner might have seen events at heritage railways as a loss-leader to generate interest in the franchise, rather than being money-making events in their own right. If the licensing terms were more benign to heritage railways, you'd likely see more events and the characters would have a higher profile than they do now, which would ultimately be a good thing for the licence holder.

Tom

 

I have heard a few tales regarding things that HIT have tried to pull over the years.

It's crazy, they have managed to pretty much kill the goose with the golden egg by failing to recognise the importance that the live stuff has with regard to keeping the Thomas the Tank engine stuff going. The relative drop off of live events and the drop in popularity of the series can't not be linked.

It would be an interesting one to turn on it's head and ask HIT how much they would like to pay for a steam railway to promote their product.

 

Thanks - how on earth could I forget Arthur and Gothenburg? Wasn't familiar with the EARM one though.

~
Of course, you're absolutely right. Ironically though the one that looks least like the character! Still, anything that keeps a Hudswell Clarke in service is good with me.

You're absolutely bang on. If you made it affordable for more heritage railways to run these events, you'd probably increase your merchandise sales too.