North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

If you took the rods off and gave it a shove from summit, by the time it got to Grosmont, you might be right. Having said that, it would probably derail on Darnholme curve, so it might not.

 

at least it wouldn't be on the bridge long enough to fall in the river


Jon

 

I am intrigued that the NYMR management seem to think that they can submit their plans to the Environment Agency and have the works complete within a six week window.The Severn Valley Railaway when re-instating the Mor Brook bridge collapse foumd that the time taken to get the necessary permissions, from the EA, and to carrry out the mandated wildlife surveys took far longer than the actual re-construction works. In fact, it took seven months frrom the bridge collapse to the line's re-opening. I can't help feeling that the NYMR are being over-optimistic with their assertion of an end of March re-opening date.

 

We were discussing the need for discussions with the EA a good few pages back. I hope the Railway had beaten us to it and entered into discussions before we did.

 

Of course it could - thats why we had to take 6619 along with us to slow things down
29/4/2006

Peter

 

I've seen that post; it is hearsay and does little more than repeat the "what ORR say is inevitable and unarguable" line that @Lineisclear has presented on here in the past. Going back to the WCRC judicial review, I suspect ORR's justification in terms of need would be a lot harder to prove for Grosmont - Whitby than for the WCRC operation, and an effective management team would be able to have sensible conversations about risk. Given other discussions on here, whether they have the will or the capacity may be a different matter, sadly

 

Just for interests sake you can get to the current certificate pretty easily.



https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...regulation-4-certficate-of-exemption-nymr.pdf

 

The NYMR were granted a standard 5 year exemption from Reg 5 on 23rd Mach 2023 and it runs until 31st March 2028. My impression (and not fact) is that, although the ORR would like CDL to be fitted, there is no deadline to do so. They have imposed a 25mph speed limit which effectively brings it in line with a heritage railway in this respect, not a real problem on a line that is only 30mph, in any case. The NYMR have, however, been looking at alternatives, such as the use of the secondary budget locks instead of CDL and have been in discussion with the ORR in this respect. However, this is more to eliminate the conditions imposed by the exemption, such as the need to have door stewards and not allow trains to carry more passengers than there are seats available.

 

Can you clarify “secondary budget locks”? Presumably if these are shoot bolts then you still need stewards to operate them?

 

To me, budget locks implies the T-Key operated locks that are fitted to the doors of many carriages already - I *think* all Mk1s and Mk2s at the very least have them already, as does pretty much all earlier stock. They of course do give the advantage of locking a door in such a way that it doesn't need constant supervision to ensure that it doesn't become accidentally or maliciously unlocked, but they would slow the loading/unloading process at stations considerably. Perhaps not much of an issue on the NYMR when they would only need to be locked at Grosmont and unlocked whilst in P2 at Whitby, where there isn't much of a chance to get in the way! If they had to be unlocked and locked at every station stop, that could become a lengthy process, though the Ffestiniog, which has routinely done exactly that for many years seems to manage it perfectly well.

John

 

See @Selsig's postrather than me repeating it.

 

There are usually a number of station staff at the busier stations so the delays are unlikely to be significant. Using these locks does help to control access and egress at short platformed stations, as well. An emergency T key would be provided at doors in a 'break glass' box. Surprisingly, the ORR have, I understand, required some pull tests to be carried out to establish how strong they are. A bit late after over a 150 years of them being used to lock out doors when required.

 

ORR use The Railway Safety Regulations 1999, to hold operators to only operate slam door coaches with centrally controlled door retention.
RSR99 only applies to railways where the line speed is higher than 25mph.
Therefore ORR cannot use RSR99 to force Heritage railways to fit CDL.

The current NYMR exemption, where their trains are restricted to maximum 25mph, where the line speed is 30mph; was an interesting application of the total discretion ORR has as to applying any of RSR99, in full or in part.

 

I agree 100% that the ORR cannot force heritage railways to fit CDL using the sledgehammer of the 1999 Regulations. However, following the incident at Loughborough in 2024 they have a renewed interest in control of the train-platform interface and how that is controlled. Heritage railways have a duty to control this and I'm aware that it has been discussed by the NYMR, along with opening windows and the risks of having them. The worrying thing is that there are people on that line who believe that limiting window opening and controlling door opening is the way to go and, naturally, the ORR would be pleased to see that happen. If it does happen, it becomes the start of back-door legislation as it then provides a lever for the ORR to hold it up as good practice to be followed by others.

 

I probably shouldn't ask, because I can feel another Director's salary being sought, but does the NYMR have a Head of Safety nowadays? I think there is (or at least, was in the last "Moors Rag" I haven't yet thrown away) a safety manager, but surely this really shoulod be a more senior position and probably a Director. Does the present incumbent command such a level of respect, or are the someone simply "with greatness thrust upon them"?,

 

Is there a risk that NYMR making engineering and operational changes such as restricting window opening and fitting additional door locks or even CDL; could set a precedent that ORR would expect all heritage railways to follow?

 

Yes. As has been discussed on here before, when @Lineisclear was robustly defending such an approach.

 

Whatever happened to @Lineisclear? He used to post so regularly.

I asked if he was ok a couple of weeks ago.

 

I think it had been mentioned a couple of times that, when it came to the earthly pleasures of engaging on social media, the NYMR directors and trustees had taken a vow of abstinence.

Tom