North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Hence my comments about "when it has hit if not that something would be required". I may be critical of NYMR leadership and management, but I am not so critical that I believe that they knew it would require this level of work and made no plans for that eventuality.

 

To be fair, the problem with Bridge 42, or at least some of it, was known about a while ago. Piglet mentioned it in a staff & volunteer forum earlier in last year and reported that a plan was being developed for it. I believe that the scheme was to do some work this winter with a intention of doing the major works next winter. Piglet at that time had become the Director of Engineering following the departure of the previous civil engineer. However, a new civil engineer was recently appointed and Piglet has reverted to being the Mechanical Engineering director. I understand the new civil has changed the plans.

 

The latest update issued by the NYMR doesn't really say more than has already been said on here. As it is a listed structure the planning authority have vetoed any plans to prop by drilling into the existing stonework. Closing the line to do a full repair is very much a non-preferred solution for reasons we have discussed. The one currently favoured it to prop the bridge by jacking and this is being investigated. I'm not sure what the EA might say about that as it must surely block the river to some extent. They have objected to such suggestions elsewhere in the past.
Adding to the woes, it appears that Bridge 18 also has significant structural issues. That's the one just south of Newtondale halt.

 

Surely the cost of propping a bridge like that with difficult access and high above a river gorge will be nearly as expensive as actually doing the proper job? Is this why the cost of a full repair hasn’t been released yet? Will the cost of a temporary repair be made public?

 

1. Maybe
2. Maybe, but more likely they don’t yet have a price for the their new direction of travel
3. There are perhaps 3 or 4 people who can answer that, none of them on this forum

 

What's the benefit of propping the bridge by jacking now to repair later (which presumably will cost more overall)? Is it so they can do it during a period of planned closure rather than eat into the running season?

 

Because a repair might take longer and prevent trains running whilst it is undertaken. Therefore the choice might be, prop it up and run trains for most of the season, or not run trains until 2027 (on that section of line anyway)

 

I doubt anyone can answer this at the moment, but with my old project management hat on, would it feasible to prop it and then repair whist propped to avoid further disruption in future?

 

I don’t think a method of long term repair has been decided upon, as yet, but I could be wrong. The aim has got to be to run trains this year, I would have thought. My thoughts are that it would be sensible to sacrifice the 2026 Santa season and have a long shutdown next winter and get the job done rather than eat into the normal running season, especially as the Santas appear to have been in decline.

 

I don’t think I’ve seen this point in the discussion of trains terminating at Goathland. For anything more than very short term (ie. half term week), do you really want to be terminating trains all day at Goathland and fully unloading trains with its short platforms. While running round at Goathland will save a locomotive, and money at this time is key, is this really a good option for both passenger experience (having to in having to walk through multiple carriages to exit/return to train, especially the queue through one door on a wet windy day) and safety with doors off the end of a platform at a terminus station (although suppose there is already an easy solution to this point with the use of the Whitby door bolts)?

If this is likely to be a medium-term issue, would running to point of obstruction / into Grosmont station limits be a sensible method of working, with trains top and tailed between Goathland towards Grosmont and back up the bank. Gives two clearly marketable experiences (especially if you push add on's - cream teas/hampers for those on the longer journey) and you don’t have to detrain a full train at Goathland. You clearly mark up the north end carriages for passengers for Goathland (and Levisham).

 

Err, how would you run beyond Goathland? The platforms at Grosmont lie beyond Bridge 42 so are inaccessible if it is closed. Any temporary platform would have to be situated amid the sea of mud, ashes, coaldust and oil etc that is forms to Grosmont Shed yard, with a a long-ish walk down to the platforms.

The problems do seem to be real - NYCC are not being particularly helpful in helping to deal with the repairs, and as the EA and Historic England don't seem to have been consulted yet it's hard to see Bridge 42 being used this year - so that situation will have to be addressed, and I can't see the present CEO and her team being able to do that, I'm afraid. I don't think there's a practical operational railwayman among them these days.

NYMR Management seem to be saying that four coach trains terminating at Goathland would not be viable, which shows to me just how bereft of ideas. Surely, with all-corridor stock the short platforms at Goathland don't matter too much, but it seems highly probable to me that whatever happens this year it will be another loss-making year, so imho they should accept that and plan accordingly. Sadly, that would have to include savage trimming of the wage bill on the office side in particular, but against that there would be other opportunities - the CEO (if she isn't regarded as being among the disposables!) has discussed the opportunities for premium services and now would be a good chance to try them out. There's also the opportunity to catch up on repairs and maintenance on other parts of the line (apparently there's a bridge in Newtondale in urgent need of attention too, but I think that's a much smaller structure and relatively inexpensive).

The real problem here is that the NYMR Management seem to be stuck in their ways and are incapable of thinking up ways around the problems, let alone trying to think of ways of using them to develop new opportunities.

 

I wasn't suggesting a temporary platform (or anywhere for anyone to get off past Goathland, those who remain on would be those these for an out and back train ride).

 

I initially made the same misinterpretation as @60044 - I'd be interested to see how demand would split between "visit Goathland" and "down the bank and up again".

 

If trains only run between Pickering and Goathland I believe the present thinking is to run four coach trains top and tailed.
I think running beyond Goathland towards Grosmont is not as simple as that. The line is currently slewed over to give access to the shed when required. With daily running that would be all the time so there would have to be both signalling and protection to prevent the possibility of two trains being in section at the same time, however unlikely. It’s not as if it was simply an extension to a dead end.

 

There's been plenty of talk about possible train services in 2026 following the news regarding Bridge 42. The header on the NYMR webpage even optimistically displays the following -
"Find out about our Bridge 42 Appeal. Our standard services will start again in March."
I'm aware that there is/will be access to the MPD at Grosmont, so although a bit more fiddly than usual, there should be no real problem regarding access to locos. However, can anyone confirm how much, if any, coaching stock is stored on the Whitby side of Bridge 42? Is the dining set stored in platform 4 or does it go into the carriage stable at Pickering over winter? I've tried looking at the Grosmont Station webcam, but there's now a fee to view the NYMR webcams.

 

I'm not sure the repairs are anything to do with the County Council, it's not a highway structure and the National Park are the planning authority here. It doesn't look like any applications for listed building consent have been made for the bridge recently.

Historic England only have to be consulted on works to Grade I or II* listed structures. As this bridge is Grade II, there isn't a need to consult them. Built heritage advice will come from the local planning authority's internal conservation officer.

 

I wonder why they feel they are stuck with 4-coach trains, though? And surely this is an opportunity to use smaller, more economical locos with 29 and 2392 - maybe even the J72, if it is available by then? I'm not advocating running beyond Goathland, actually I think it would provide a worse image than suspending the service, if it means delivering people into the muck at the heart of the loco yard and whatever is still going on there. What I ndo think is a positive is that the opportunity will be there to actually advertise and sell the opportunities offered by the NYMR in its own right, if only they wake up and take it. Cutting the wage bill, and seeing how they get on with a reduced staff, would also be a help - provided any cuts are made so as to preserve what is really needed (the engineering and maintenance staff). and reduce the more easily replaced ones. I think there's a lot of scope for that within Park Street!

 

I’ve just had an interesting conversation with one of the NYMR staff. There is no stock stuck on the wrong side of the bridge as the decision to close the bridge was made earlier in the week but not implemented until the Pullman and Flying Scotsman had gone over it. I asked how a bridge could be so dangerous that it needed closing in a few days time and was told that these decisions are made upstairs and behind closed doors. I asked when it was likely that the bridge would reopen and was told that propping had been suggested then ruled out then suggested again and then fully ruled out then there’s people there today looking at the option of propping it. 5 orange clad beings were visible but looked to be in the tunnel rather than on the bridge. I asked if the cost for the repair had been mentioned and he said he had said too much and couldn’t say any more. Grosmont looked so sad and neglected with the rusty rails, probably like this every closed season but the first time I have been on a non running day.

 

If the name of the game is 'days out on the railway', is a walk down to Beck Hole and Grosmont and a minibus back up to Goathland a possibility?

Many years ago I remember doing a family walk in Dalby Forest from Newtondale. Is that still an option?

Is a minibus possible from Levisham station up to the village with various walks, Hole of Horcum etc from there, or simply a wander round and a pub lunch?