Saphos Trains 2026

If it helps, 60103 ran unassisted over Shap (northbound with 11 on) on 2 July 2016, with The Hadrian.

 

Indeed it did. I was going to check the date when I got home. It was the occasion when the Antiques Roadshow was on board and filmed some parts on the platform at Carlisle with the loco as a bacckdrop. Fiona Bruce was taken through the corridor tender to the footplate on the way to Newcastle but didn't linger there very long.

Peter

 

I've noticed an interesting change to Saphos website for 2026. Standard Class has made a limited comeback. It has returned as a seating option on the S&C Fellmans only. (As well as the already known Shap ones in Feb and March)

I really feel Saphos are improving. I understand not bringing Standard back on everything given the market but offering it once again on the more enthusiast based trips is a good move, allowing those with less money to be able to go on their trips.

 

The WoE has definitley been starved of unassisted steam runs in recent years so I think a lot of people would agree with you on that one.

 

I don't want to get too excited to early but is it starting to look like LSL are opening up to the idea of unassisted steam running? If so that is amazing and credit to them.

 

Personally I have though the same thing for a long time. Obviously LSL have a different view, but in the internet age it is very easy to set the website to say Steam Dreams is now part of Saphos.
The original demarcation of SD tours starting in the south and Saphos ones in the north seems to be out of the window as well.
To me now it is just a mess but as I do not travel with either my view is worth nowt.

 

The part of that day that I remember was going across from York to Carnforth with the loco and support coach. We passed through Leeds at about 6am and found ourselves running alongside a Pacer on the next road. The driver was clearly enjoying paceing (no pun intended) Flying Scotsman, so the guard in the back cab was opposite the support coach kitchen where the crew's bacon butties were being prepaired. The guard had an envious look in his eye and licked his lips, so one of the support crew picked up one of the butties and passed it across to him through the open quarter light. Almost immediately the trains parted company at Whitehall Junction and the last we saw of the grateful guard he was on the telephone to his driver saying something along the lines of "You'll never guess what......"

Of course, nothing like that could happen today

Anyway I digress - back to Saphos

Peter

 

What is the issue with both companies covering both parts of the country?

 

4472 hauled the Moorlands over Shap 28th October 1968. My late father, Eirwyn Williams, worked as a Movements Inspector, based at Preston, and accompanied the train from Preston to Carlisle and as far as Hellifield on the return.
I also saw 4472 heading north ,near Oubeck Loops, on another excursion in 1969.

 

No issue probably. I'd guess it's keeping the goodwill of the business, which isn't bad thing. Steam Dreams having been for many years a distinctive and respected Southern based operation, with Watercress Line connections and green carriages.

 

Adding to that, it seems likely that some customers are on SD's mailing list but not on Saphos's. While there would be minimal harm in reality in combining the lists, that might be prohibited by data protection law. Forthcoming trips could be advertised to everyone on both lists, but that would result in many people getting the adverts twice, which might be annoying.

I was on both lists, and I continue to get emailshots from statesman-saphos.com covering both those brands and Midland Pullman, but I have had nothing from Steam Dreams recently.

 

Of course there is no contemporary issue! But then you describe an issue which could be labelled historic.

I have good memories of many SD tours, which my wife and I enjoyed when Marcus Robertson ran the company, and from the few conversations I had with him over the years, he seemed a good chap. If I can improve my health a little, we are considering a Belle Trains tour in the future.

On the other hand, we have only travelled a few times with LSL, and despite never having met Jeremy Hosking, from what I know of him, I certainly dislike his political views, and I suspect that in the unlikely event of us meeting, I might well dislike him.

None of this has much to do with the limited number of excursions, on which we now travel. These are chosen primarily using the criteria of the stock used, the route and timings, the locomotive, and the probable degree of diesel involvement. This year that meant Vintage Trains, UK Railtours and Belmond. For next year, RTC and WCR improbably might change their approach and become attractive again, but a prejudice against Hosking's companies will remain, despite lingering sentimental memories of Steam Dreams.

 

WCR will have to change their approach as they are being left behind given that LSL and VT are all looking into running without diesels etc. might be time for WCR to change their tactics.

 

You have made the assumption there that the steam railtour market is enthusiast driven, which these days is far from correct.
Yes a few enthusiast based tours have a small market share, but most Saphos, SD and VT tours also run with a diesel. So WCRC are obviously not worried about what you regard as "left behind" as that is not where the market is in 2025/6.

 

Even though it’s clear recently that companies are beginning to open up to the idea of running unassisted with LSL trialing it, VT offering unassisted Shakespeare Express’ etc.

I agree it’s not where the market is, but to me it’s hard to justify advertising a trip as ‘steam hauled’ when it’s clear that the steam locomotive is doing very little.

 

There’s another thread, dating back years, where that discussion has gone round in more circles than the wheels of a 9F at 90mph

 

For which you can partially blame me, although my fairly innocuous post and those following were hijacked by @Big Al (Not unreasonably).

https://www.national-preservation.c...charters-including-the-use-of-diesels.757898/

Enjoy the journey Charles, if you fancy it!

 

I definitely fancy it, I shall take a look.