Waterman Steam fleet

Ideally peak rail would make use of them, it has been in dire need of some anchor locos for its steam fleet, it’s a shame a railway of that size doesn’t have a good array of stuff to choose from, galas and events often fall short due to lack of options if failures occur. Sadly although peak rail is in a stronger position than it has been in years they are probably not in a position to put up strong money, particularly for locos that need investment and aren’t ready to steam.

 

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Don't think trains boats or cars are subject to CGT. So therefore no loss relief.

 

Anything held in a trust is subject to CGT....but the whole Trust scene is a minefield...

 

I've now bought Trackside and read the article which confirms the Waterman restoration co. at Peak Rail has closed and the locos up for sale. Pete Waterman confirmed he's nearly 80; wants to concentrate on other things and doesn't want the locos to be a burden to his descendants. Following the national-insurance changes he also says he was losing £55,000/year rather than £5,000.

As for price "If you're serious ring me and we'll talk. If you're not serious don't bother."

 

..................... all of which sounds very reasonable! but will he finds buyers, and where? Those who could make best use of them may struggle to afford them, and those who might be able to afford them probably don't need them! In the meantime, just to make matters worse, he'll probably be racking up insurance & storage (and maybe other) charges as well.

 

Indeed, and it's more complicated than that - if it has a boiler certificate till 2031 as some reports say, the issues with it may be relatively easy to fix - a new set of tubes perhaps? - so an offer price or perceived asking price might be anywhere in that sort of range. Not that we'll ever know, but how quickly it sells might give an indication!

 

Now I know the NI increases have hit hard but how how much was he paying for an increase of £50k in NI payments? I don't think it was a particularly big team ?

Jon

 

Is it me, or is this thread descending into rehearsing what anyone wishing and in a position to buy a locomotive would find blindingly obvious?

 

Plenty of people have bought locos without seeing the blindingly obvious. They wouldn’t have bought them, otherwise!

 

"I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!" - I too thought the jump from £5K to £50K was a tad too much i.e. and ten fold increase is somewhat wide of the mark - now lets face it NI has gone up (and I'll spare you of the reasons for this especially on budget day!) but 10 times is somewhat of a stretch. Whatever his reasoning are for but pre inheritance planning is obviously a good thing if you want to find a acceptable home for your former hobby items otherwise who knows where your loco's will end up. Talking of private owner's collections being "distributed" (?!) I see in one of the rags that David Buck's collection is up for sale, who knows who will take on that big Finnish loco although some of the other locos may create some interest. . . .

 

I don't think he was saying NI had increased 10 fold, rather the loss had increased from £5k to £55k. What his NI bill was before and after the change is not revealed.

 

Does it matter a hoot? The locos are for sale whatever the reason.

 

I was just answering @fergusmacg post. I don't care why he's put them on the market, nor did I indicate that I did.

 

There is a term, in common use in the legal profession, I believe, - "due diligence", which really ought to form part of the purchase negotiations. Just going along and kicking the tyres won't do much more than lead to a bruised foot!

As for the lack of obvious potential purchasers, well comment on those lines is frankly trite -anyone interested is likely to be keeping their cards close to their chest and remaining anonymous/unseen till the deal is closed.

 

I'm not sure due diligence is quite as easy as you might think, which is why loco restorations always either over run their initial estimate, or else resort to the well-worn phrase "it will be ready when it is ready".

Ironically kicking the tyres - or at least, measuring the profiles and how much depth is left - is one of the easier things to get right. But for a narrow firebox loco - how do you assess the state of the lower sides of the outer firebox, short of doing a boiler lift? Similarly, a loco may have shown signs of high water consumption towards the end of its ticket, but that could be as simple as requiring new rings, or a bit more complex in requiring the cylinders to be bored out to a new diameter to correct an "oval" profile; or as complex as a crack in the valve faces that requires complex stitch-welded repair of perhaps even new castings. ("Stowe" is getting new outside cylinders at this overhaul because, on examination, it was discovered that there was a casting flaw that means they can't be guaranteed to cope with the pressure if bored out again; the flaw has probably been there since construction nearly 100 years ago. But it is an issue that has only become apparent with the loco fully dismantled.)

Ultimately these are old machines, which have seen long hard lives, not always been stored or maintained in optimal conditions, and which - when running - can harbour a surprising number of serious issues while apparently still working OK. Quite frequently the full extent of what needs doing only becomes apparent once you have stripped a loco down - and few people are likely to wish to bear the cost of stripping a loco down (and subsequent reassembly) just to find out the extent of the issues before committing to a purchase.

An experienced eye will go a long way, but ultimately any such purchase has a significant element of being purchased on faith.

Tom

 

It's a real Monkey's Paw deal, that one.

"An opportunity to purchase a pacific in full working order..."

Oh? Sounds like a good deal

"...that can only operate on the 500ft of track it's currently sat on"