North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Does your car melt itself if it runs out of petrol?

 

I do

 

500 gallons is enough, but not generous, but it would look pretty marginal if (and I am sure this wasn’t the case) the water is in the bottom but and you’re on 500 gallons that’s still fine as long as the water tower works and you don’t have any more work to do until you’ve topped up a bit otherwise, it will all be a bit less fun probably.

 

VAT on dining trains is covered in VAT notice 744A. It states:
9.8 ‘Wine and dine’, ‘steam and cuisine’ and other similar journeys
Depending on the circumstances ‘wine and dine’, ‘steam and cuisine’, disco cruises, dinner cruises, wedding reception cruises and other similar journeys may be:

• standard-rated
• zero-rated
• treated as mixed supplies

My interpretation of this is that, if the food is included in the cost of the train fare, it is zero rated. If it is incidental, then the cost of the food is standard rated. I don't think it matters whether you can get off, or not. For example a train journey that starts at A and does a circular tour before returning to A is zero rated. This is covered in Clause 4.1 of the VAT notice 744A which states:
The zero-rated domestic passenger transport will also include:

• cliff lifts
• excursions by coach or train (including steam railways)
• sightseeing tours

This is a bit of a diversion from the current discussion, though.

 

I'd be getting a tad concerned if I had to drive my car with less than a gallon of water in it.

 

My last ever trip on a BR steam hauled train was on the 15th December 1967 on the 17.47 Manchester - York behind 70024. The train stopped at Leeds where I got off. The driver wanted water but when the fireman put the bag in the tender nothing happened. According to the driver, there was only 500 gallons left showing on the gauge and he was doubtful that they would make York but, after a conversartion with someone (inspector?) the train set off. Steam had finished on the North Eastern region at the end of September and operational water columns were few and far between. I often wonder whether it made it.

 

But relevant to the extent that it highlights that the VAT regime has relatively limited interest in the nature of journeys undertaken, once the railway has got beyond being just a museum line.

 

Completely off topic but found this entry on trip advisor
Lovely Trip, Lovely staff, ashame about the organisation of parking.
Oct 2025 • Friends
Had an interesting Day on the Railway. Had Tickets booked fo Flying Scotsman with 3 friends, all Started well but the Parking was horrid and totally disorganised, some tall chap who it turned out wasnt even a member of staff or Volunteer, was turning people away from National Parks Carparks, even when it wasnt the NYMRs and spaces were there. We got parked eventaully thanks to a kind member of staff moving their car, in the Station car park. Once out the car some agressive shorter Lady in Hi Vis was being very very rude and shouting at the other volunteers / staff. This later turned out to be the CEO, god help the NYMR if this in your CEO. Those poor staff who were so wonderful and helpful helping my wife get onto the Station, were victims of this horrid lady. Once on the train it was clean and tidy, the trip was great plus the on train staff were excellent and we enjoyed our day. Was just a shame the event was such a shambles, surely someone could have counted the parking places in grosmont before hand and a 1000 people turned up. It ruined an otherwise prefect day. Hopefully heads will roll for those that planned it and its not just let go as its a finacial success. Keep up the good work to those that were actually helpful, you are what has made the NYMR so special for us over the years for us. Jude and Kate

Is this behaviour to be condoned by a charity which relies on the support of the general public.

 

Not "off topic" at all - in fact very relevant to posts further 'up thread'. Thanks for posting.
Ray.

 

I wonder if anyone at NYMR read TripAdvisor comments? I know a lot of organisations do and many respond also

Sent from my SM-A556B using Tapatalk

 

Because the legislation that you're basing all that tower of assumptions on that says right of admission, also clearly says it's a donation as its foundation. That feels like the beginning and the end of it to me.

 

OK.let me put it another way. If intending passengers is only making a voluntary donation what legal obligation, if any, is the railway under to admit them?

 

Because we’re not in the realm of contract law. The obligation to grant admission is not a contractual obligation by the charity to the donor, but a legal duty on the charity under tax law in order to qualify for the donation.

The wrong done to the donor would not be a breach of contractual obligation. Their remedy would be as a tort, and the charity would be subject to action from HMRC for their breach of the regulations.

 

Why am I not surprised?

 

That just doesn ‘t stand up to scrutiny. The Income Tax Act refers to a right of admission. That must mean that payment having been made there’s an obligation to admit. Certainly that is what the donor would expect. The problem is the wording of the Act which confuses a right of admission with a donation.

 

Nor am I, and its not the first time I've heard of this sort of behaviour. It's sort of refreshing to hear of the CEO tackling this sort of role, but deeply disappointing that she exhibits this sort of behaviour in front of the public. Sounds like she needs to go on a public awareness course!

 

Why must it mean that the right is a contractual right? Donations, by definition, are voluntary gifts so the legislation seems to me to be a straightforward way of guaranteeing the reciprocal entitlement without engaging contractual rights in any way shape or form.

That may make the law an ass, and we might well agree that it is an ass in this instance, but that doesn’t mean that responses grounded in a wholly different sphere of law have any basis.

 

Comsidering the current or former occupations and qualifications of some of the likers of this post I hope someone’s PII policy is upto date and sufficient in cover .

 

An adherent of the 'the beatings will continue until morale improves' school of management?

Noel