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Fire Risk and Preserved Lines

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by johnofwessex, May 11, 2025.

  1. WorkingPressure225

    WorkingPressure225 New Member

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    Ashpans and gradients are the main two reasons. I’m not an engine person, and someone else would be able to answer it better than me but I have a good understanding of it. One of the ways to mitigate fires is to empty the ashpan as regularly as possible - on a standard timetable at the Bluebell we were doing this after every trip during that recent spell of hot weather.
     
  2. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    A further fire risk update has been issued on the Watercress Line website today:

    "Due to the extreme fire risk and heat wave on the approach, between Tuesday 12th – Friday 15th August, we will only be operating a Diesel Hauled One Train Service. The shuttle service will not operate on these dates."
     
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  3. Petra Wilde

    Petra Wilde New Member

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    Those sound like mitigating factors but there are other things to take into account. For example, not all heritage lines have perfectly manicured track with all weeds in the four-foot removed, everywhere. Some apply weedkiller, but that can leave dried out clumps of dead grass (etc). If there is wind, a tiny fire in the 4-foot could produce sparks/burning particles which blow onto the lineside or a field.

    Add to that the non-negligible risk of a bit of burning coal falling at 25 mph and bouncing out between the wheels. Ashpans do matter.
     
  4. Petra Wilde

    Petra Wilde New Member

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    One might also try mollifying an aggrieved member of the public by deploying the argument that steam from the chimney adds to humidity in the atmosphere; which increases the risk of a thunderstorm; which may water the person’s garden and reduce the risk of water shortages and hosepipe bans.

    All rather small effects of course; but then the amount of water wasted by steam trains is very small in the greater picture, too!
     
  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It seems that the risk of lineside fires caused by steam operation on the main lines is worse than when most trains were hauled by steam, mainly because of NR's different approach to the management of lineside vegetation. But why is the risk also worse on heritage railways than in days of yore?
     
  6. The Gricing Owl

    The Gricing Owl Well-Known Member

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    A little something called Climate Change perhaps?

    Bryan
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Probably a combination of reasons.

    Climate change is certainly one.

    Lineside maintenance is another; even on heritage lines, many have fairly unkempt lineside. Maybe not to the jungle status of Network Rail, but not cut back short.

    Another consideration is service frequency, particularly out of season. If you don’t run much or at all between Christmas and Easter, a lot of dead vegetation can build up that doesn’t get removed in many small fires, so gives a bigger risk of having one big one.

    Insurance premiums and general neighbourliness also have an impact on a railways’ risk appetite - in other words, less about the absolute likelihood of a fire, but rather the willingness of a railway to risk a significant fire. My perception is that many lines have erred strongly on the side of caution this year.

    Tom
     
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  8. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Climate change is making long dry spells more frequent, but they were not unknown in the days of steam. And there were of course far far more steam hauled trains. Tom's other suggestions seem convincing.
     
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  9. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    If you look at the steam era photo's the vegetation on the other side of the fence has changed as well with a lot more trees and general 'growth'
     
  10. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Watercress Line full line service steam ban now extended into next week and up to the Bank Holiday weekend. Full line services will be handled by either the Class 47 or one of the Class 20's.
    41312 will be operating the shuttle between Ropley and Alresford.
     
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  11. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

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    Lead story on Look East was a farmer alongside the Mid-Norfolk calling for steam bans during dry weather following a lineside fire on Sunday

    Jon
     
  12. used2be

    used2be New Member

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    On the WSR web site

    "We apologise that we are currently operating diesel trains on the West Somerset Railway following an incident close to the track on Bank Holiday Monday.

    Fire spread through 18 gardens damaging several sheds and out buildings close to the track in Verdun Terrace, Washford causing extensive damage. The fire brigade attended and are looking into the cause of the fire, which is, as yet, unknown. The fire spread rapidly due to the hot, dry, weather to stubble, field and hedgerows nearby..

    We always seek to be good neighbours and while assessment of the damage and cause of the fire is in progress we will not be operating steam trains in the area. "
     
  13. RWJP

    RWJP New Member

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    News article with photos of the damage caused here: https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/local-news/gallery/fire-destroys-washford-gardens-next-10452098, and another article here: https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/dozens-treated-after-huge-fire-10455601

    Yikes, that's not a good situation. While fires in fields and heathland are terrible, the railways can, for lack of a better term, "get away with it" to a degree because there's minimal risk to human life... Fires in the gardens of 18 lineside homes on the other hand is far too close for comfort and very likely to evoke a very negative response.

    I sincerely hope the railway was not the cause of this one, but even if they weren't the optics of news reports highlighting the proximity to the railway aren't good.
     
  14. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    I saw that, while I appreciate his worry I think he was a bit overthe top saying one day the whole farm might burn down. The railways must be a bit wary of others trying to jump on ther band wagon and record actual tmes of trains passing the fire risk points. I worked for a rural insurer and there was a case many years ago of a fire claim where a wooden building was alledgedly burnt down by a passing train on the main line. I won't say where it was but the farmer obviously worked on the scheduled time of the train, unfortunately for him it was running late and the call to the Fire Brigade four minutes before the train passed the site of the fire!
     
  15. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I note the description as a "house fire", but the pictures don't entirely support that.
     
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  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I know of a similar case where a farmer claimed that the “steam engine” had caused his crops to be burnt. Unfortunately for him, the railway was running a diesel because of the fire risk.
     
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  17. David likes trains

    David likes trains Member

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    Just had a watch and yes it was a sensationalised report. As it happens I went to that very spot late on Monday afternoon (photo below) and saw no signs of the fire. Though it was on the opposite side of the line that the path which you walk to get there, by the sidings. I would have thought the rolling stock stored in the sidings was at more risk from that particular fire than anything else. Been there a few times and the pig farm is a lot of bare earth with seemingly little for a fire to spread on, in fairness a corn field would be at risk. I know North Norfolk have fire breaks alongside some of the fields and they suspended steam recently until the corn was harvested. Mid Norfolk's Class 47 that was away at Spa Valley has just come back and apparently will be running at the weekend.
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. brennan

    brennan Member

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    It's still diesel haulage today on the WSR if anyone wants to get some mileage behind a 33 . In the early days of the heritage railway it hit the headlines after they burned down a thatched house beside the line.
     
  19. D7076

    D7076 Well-Known Member

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    Nene Valley diesel post a field getting burned last Monday (per the ticket office clerk this morning).
     
  20. brennan

    brennan Member

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    Another insurance claim, higher premiums.
     

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