Jacobite 2025

They do have limits as to how far they can go with the Harry Potter connection though. Remember this legal statement they published a few years ago? Clearly, Warner Bros felt a line had been crossed somewhere.

 

You could equally say that the world aviation model is risky then as I would guess these days somewhere between 30 and 50% of that hinges on equipment owned by someone other than an airline.
Some operations are totally dependent on leased equipment, as for that matter is the UK Rail network (just sayin)

 

The difference is that, generally, airlines have their risks spread and the loss of a single contract would not be critical to their operations. The relationship between WCRC and Riley is, as far as I can tell, stable and robust - but if it were to go wrong, would have a dramatic effect.

 

Although if you remove Riley's locos including those in his orbit such 45212, what does any TOC or loco owner have to offer for that line before you get to the Mk2 issue.
WCRC 44932, 48151 suitable?, other Black 5's out of service,
LSL 61306, 45231 out of service
VT none
Others 62005?, 61264 out of service plus mainline future?

Maybe there is more, but none spring to mind that would fit. Add in the air brake issue and the list gets very short.

Would a Jubilee, after all only really a GTI Black 5 be suitable?

 

No mainline S15s sadly!

 

or S160's... ? Think it would have to be pretty dire before its necessary to ' Mainline and air brake' a different loco rather than just air brake an existing one
A jube is slightly longer in the wheelbase and 10 tonnes heavier, even black 5's are a little too long in the wheel base.
Would have thought that a double chimney standard 4 might be up to it or even a schools...?

 

Isn't that the other way around though--- in the case of FS, the TOC doesn't want to operate the loco.

Suppose completely hypothetically that WCR were to disappear off the face of the earth. Would another TOC want to operate the Jacobite? Yes. Would that TOC want to team up with Rileys to deliver it? That would be the obvious way to do it for all the reasons you give.

 

The last few posts (Matin’s excepted) have been pure fantasy obviously written by people who have never visited the WHL. The gradients and curves on the Mallaig road will knock the stuffing out of any engine in a season, a Schools is fine for what they were built for but totally unsuitable up there, a 2-8-0 on a line full of sharp check railed curves the same, 48151 was only used for one season. There is also a lot more to it than just fitting an air pump; overhaul to ML standards, TPWS, all the other electronic gubbins and certification doesn’t come cheap. Having seen the operation on annual visits over the last 24 years, a bit hands on last year, I can confidently say there is currently no other operator with the resources to run it. One thing to remember is that Fort William is a long way from anywhere and I’m sure that Ian Riley, being a regular Jacobite driver able to keep an eye on his engines is a big factor in the reliability of the operation.
West Coast has run it efficiently and safely for over 30 years, the current problem is unsuitable rolling stock not giving the promised experience. We don’t know what 10A are doing to address this so no point in speculating.

 

It's all true, but @30567 is right - if WCR ceased to exist or to have the license to operate, it is unrealistic to assume that there could be no Jacobite. Alternatives could and I suspect would be found - as the saying goes, nature abhors a vacuum.

The important point, on which we both agree, is that the core of the issue is WCRC's treatment of coaching stock - which is a matter within their control.

 

I don’t think it is unrealistic to assume that but WCR aren’t going away thankfully. The glimmer of hope is that I’ve heard that the overhaul of the K1 has been given priority and unless things have changed it won’t be fitted out for working air-braked trains

 

The K1 was supposed to have been up and running at Fort William by now, I think, but there has been no news of how it has progressed since March (at least that I've seen) Mention has been made of S15s as a possibility - 825 is qualified for limited main line running and is at least partially equipped, so might not take too much extra to get it fully registered, and given the currently parlous state of the NYMR they probably wouldn't be sorry to see it go. One less hungry locomotive owner to feed with cash!

 

825 has not run on the main line since the introduction of TPWS/OTMR and GSM-R, an expensive lot of equipment and the loco is nit needed for the Jacobite.

 

It has, it's definitely fitted with TPWS, but I don't think GSM-R and OTMR are a requirement for the short section between Grosmont and Whitby.

 

Thanks, I didn’t know it was passed to work to Whitby

 

Has been for years - which is why I mentioned it! That surely means it must be up to spec in terms of its boiler and mechanical fitness and also partial fitting of electronics, so if there was a perceived need for it I don't see any problems (apart from cost!) - but I don't think that at present there is a perceived need. Better suited to the line than a Black 5, I'd suggest - apart from the very exposed cab when running in reverse!

 

Quite right of course, - looking at what has worked on the NYM influenced my suggestions because its steep and also has some limited mainline running. S160 suggested because its an extremely short coupled wheelbase for a 2-8-0 , has air brakes... (but NYMR hasnt ran one to Whitby yet so...) S15 certainly but this is after all what if stuff.

 

At least Black 5s are correct for the WHL although they didn’t work to Mallaig. You are right, the crews would be most unhappy with an S15 cab

 

Of bigger note, two Rail Adventure HST power cars with two ex-GA Mk3's are on their way to Kyle currently for filming related to the new series. A few days there, and then apparently over to the West Highland Line for more.

Now the set up suggests it's purely external shots for out the window, possibly to be used on green screen internal sets....

What this raises, as a question, is how this may impact the current Jacobite offering. Will it dilute the market, as the expected 'Harry Potter train and route' may be different in this upcoming series?