Tornado

Just how big is that axe that you are grinding?

 

Have we had a definitive explanation of how the boiler had changed to necessitate turning down the tyres? There have been mutterings about something being out of square, but is that established fact or rumour? Turning down the tyres for one period of operation may have been the "least worst" immediate solution, and a likely medium-term solution will be to use one of the new boilers, which surely ought to be available after another three years. But long term?

 

How am I "knocking the trust"?
Why are they not answering covenantor enquiries?
How much have they spent on abortive works?
Why was the boiler run out of square?

How long has the East Lancs been in the diary for?
When did the WVR deal come up?
How much has been comitted to low-loaders etc?

Remember these aren't amateurs doing it in their spare time, these are (highly) paid people holding themselves out to have expertise.

This deal is at best salvaging something from a situation that is almost entirely of matters under their control (and yes, defective workmanship by contractors is under their control). Failing to replace engineering expertise certainly is. At worst, it's a dash for new funding to appease who they can and ignore those they can't. Which could bite them when the deal is over or is subject to a number of very obvious risks.

Now, how is that "knocking"? Refusing to take on trust glib answers yes, knocking, no.

 

How much are you willing to avoid asking difficult questions?

 

When I first saw her like this...it warmed my heart. Like many I'm sure, it reminds us of happy childhoods, spotting at Doncaster & York on day trips from Lancs!

 

There has been no official confirmation, but up-thread it seems that it is accepted that the firebox was significantly out of square. It's certainly not run on the mainline since the tyres, but I'm not sure about on preserved lines. Sheff has more details IIRC.

 

The out of square firebox has never been confirmed, but it does have an air of plausibility.
If the boiler was changed in the future to one of the new ones, and assuming they are square, then the problem goes away and Tornado could be retyred without issue (if required).
I would assume that the out of square boiler will eventually go back to Germany for some major reconstruction work to get it back to design spec.

 

The devil is in the detail.
"This is a major, positive step, and follows the registration documentation and certification being completed at the end of February."
Which makes you wonder at all the previous promises
"On arrival at Carnforth the locomotive will be fully examined and if all is well it will be prepared for its loaded test run. Clearly this is subject to a successful light engine test run and completion of appropriate audit and acceptance activities with WCR."
So it's "on approval"
"Considering this timeline and the potential risk involved"
Their words, not mine...
, we have agreed with the East Lancashire Railway (ELR) to postpone the visit scheduled for this month. This is not something we do lightly, especially after such a long time out of operation, but it is important that we ensure Tornado is properly tested and available for the 2025 season and is operated with confidence"
I.e. which would suggest there is limited confidence in the work done to date.

If they were frantically putting it back together in Feb, it suggests that the programme is out of the window again, and that they were working to hit this WCR deadline with the ELR as a back-up plan? Did the ELR know that?

 

Plus at some stage in this schedule its needs a coat of paint which is hardly a couple of hours with a roller....

Plus do people really think that WCR would have blindly entered into this contract with literally no idea of the locomotives condition, certification or fitness to run I know by executing a A1SLT x WCR tie up its created the ultimate bogey man in many peoples eyes, but purlease ????

 

Who's saying that?

 

You are reading way too much into that statement. That's a standard response to any enquiry for a loco which is newly overhauled.

 

Were it a standard situation, I'd agree with you. How many times have they promised it to be ready (and encouraged booking of rail tours on a definite basis) already?

 

a chance encounter this morning at Peterborough.

 

What is being forgotten by some is the huge amount of work done that was needed to install the latest signalling/control systems into Tornado - and it being the first such installation. Obviously it made sense to do this work whilst the engine was being overhauled - but there was a total underestimation of exactly how much work and extra equipment/alteration/adaptation would be needed. Added to the firebox dimensional change and the new tyres ( which I'm sure will have at least 8 years of mainline use) it has been a nightmare scenario. Yes, the Trust were wrong to arrange dates/venues in the hope that the locomotive would be finished....but these are put in place well beforehand and situations change. The locomotive has run on the GCR and NVR and now on the mainline so there is steady progress.

 

I think we all understand the complexities involved, what isn’t acceptable is the Trust’s supporters being lied to.

 

On my drive to work this morning I saw steam rising at Orton Mere. Currently 7 down on its way to Carnforth

 

As a long time covenantor and sponsor of "clubs", I've been as disappointed as anyone about what has been going on with the Trust, but let's cut back to basics. Like many others, I coughed up several thousands because I wanted to see an A1 built and operational on the main line. That has happened. I want to see it continue to operate. I lack confidence that A1SLT has the competence to do that, so a link up with WCRC that enables the loco to operate is good news to me. The alternative is probably that it sits in the shed at Darlington.

Then there is the P2. Does anyone have confidence that the Trust, in its current incarnation, can progress the build to successful completion, even if they had the money? I don't. Unless the Trust is somehow reformed, the best hope of seeing an operational P2 in my lifetime would be if a different, more competent organisation would take it on. That might enable the Trust to get its finances in order and concentrate on what seems to be its main interest at present - establishing a railway museum and a site for turning and servicing visiting railtours.

 

I'm not sure I'd describe the process as steady...

Things do get booked in advance, so they can be cancelled in advance too. It's now, what, 18 months after they started being delayed? To miss one deadline may be regarded as a misfortune; to miss 6(?) looks like carelessness (to misquote Lady Bracknell)...

Things do happen, and that would be fine, but there hasn't been one iota of contrition or explaination. I don't know who wrote the latest release, but to keep a straight face whilst writing about not cancelling lightly must have been some effort.

No one has forgotten how much work the new installation has taken as they've told is in great detail, whilst deafening silence reigned on the boiler, the ashpan, the grate etc.

Short of actually putting a press release saying "we're not telling you the whole story", I'm not sure how their comms could give a less convincing projection.

I don't recall anyone else's firebox just popping out of square to the extent it doesn't fit... and certainly not bodging it back in. Especially not on a nearly-new engine.

 

I'm not a covenantor (I supported them by going on the tours instead) but I've been on their mailing list for years and, in the days of Mark Allatt, used to get regular detailed emails about what was going on. Haven't had one for quite some time now. Complete silence. I'm not on Facebook anymore so, were it not for this forum, I would have no idea the loco was back on the mainline.

 

I did think it was a bit cavalier going back out on to the mainline without a diesel on the rear just in case, but judging by the videos on Facebook I needn't have worried.