West Somerset Railway General Discussion

That is not an indicator on it's own with no reasoning. Pre-SDR child nearly going through a toilet floor incident, there were probably a lot of carriages operating that should not have been. A lot of railways have suddenly withdrawn carriages since then and that was even before covid.

 

You rather make my point for me. Carriages are either fit for traffic or not; and you ought to be able to keep a steady number in traffic. If there is a scare (such as the SDR example) that suddenly causes you to withdraw carriages that shouldn't actually have been running in the first place, then it is an indication that your maintenance plan wasn't sufficient.

So how steady your carriage fleet size is over a number of years is absolutely a valid indicator of whether you are maintaining the status quo or gradually slipping behind (or indeed, getting ahead).

A topic that is often discussed on this thread is that the WSR has over a period of 10+ years lost 50,000 or more passengers; and financially it would be much healthier if it could get back to levels seen a couple of decades ago with 200,000+ passengers each year. Well, that's undoubtedly true, but suppose there was an upturn in the economy and that many passengers turned up - does it have enough carriages to run sufficient trains to sustainably pull them all? And if not, where is going to get that extra seating capacity from?

Tom

 

Presumably though

The Twatlington Tramway needs x carriages to maintain its peak service plus another Y for charters/spares/strengtheninbg etc.

While it might have more carriages'not in use' compared with pre Covid it might be because it has looked at its fleet and its costs and decided that it can reduce the number of in service vehicles and/or put some of its fleet through longer and more comprehensive overhauls than it did in the past

 

The number of serviceable carriages is a meaningless number without any context. You would firstly need to define your baseline number of carriages e.g. the minimum number required to maintain services plus one or more spares, which will vary enormously depending on size of the operation. The number and type of carriages will vary year on year because of passenger demand, maintenance & restoration schedules, the number and type of of events run, strategic / commercial reasons to buy or sell carriages and a hundred other factors. By itself it isn't possible to conclude that a reduction in serviceable carriages indicates a maintenance problem, it could just as easily indicate a better use of resources instead of towing fresh air around!

 

I remind myself that the SD incident was in June 2017, over 7 years ago now.

I was involved in the immediate response on two railways (one I volunteered on, another by invitation of their directors) which both instituted a review to ensure that carriage maintenance standards were up to snuff.

That is long enough ago now than falling carriage availability is a useful indicator of present health, not that particular incident.

On a different point, we have been discussing the advantage of charitable status. Another potential advantage is the standards of governance and personal responsibility which apply to charitable trustees over those which apply to company directors. The differences are substantial and important.

Speaking as a current charitable trustee who values the continuing ownership of my house and other small possessions, I have always been very conscious of those responsibilities and the terms of the 'Directors and Officers' insurance in place.

 

That is definitely not the case. There is a sliding scale from peak condition to no further traffic until after serious repairs are completed.

 

And in other news, Companies House now has the latest set of accounts.

 

I don't know what you are trying to get at.

The WSR have had enough carriages to suit the needs of the season. There would have been a problem if they only had 8 or 9 carriages available, but no ordinary day has required more than 2 carriage sets. The summer season operated with 7 carriage trains complete with buffets, and carriages have been receiving attention at Minehead.

 

Passenger numbers alone isn't a good indicator. Less operating days, less mileage etc, higher fares, busier trains means less passengers can be more profitable than more passengers. There is no senior citizen discount now either.

 

The trouble with coach Maintenace is that much of it is hidden, for example, how many of your coaches are running with defects? this could mean toilets locked out of use, because the floor has rotted out, wheel sets, with flats, tyre flanges that are at the very limit, crash pillars don't appear to the untrained eye to be weakened, until your screwdriver goes through, and much of the metal around it collapses, and you end up with a fist size hole, or that rust bubble hides rather too much filler, that exposes a rusted out bottom rail, even the latest build mk1's are now older than pre grouping coaches that were being withdrawn back in the late 60's early 70's and they have lasted long beyond what their life span was meant to be.

 

West Somerset free press quotes Jonathon Jones-Pratt, half of £422 690 loss due to release of long term hire contract with SDRT for 53808 plus £210,000 paid in monthly installments over next 5 years.

 

Should be allowed to get it in for galas at that price.

 

Its very unlikily that the S&DRT will want to entertain any request from the WSR PLc to hire 53808 such is the depth of feeling over their treatment and the way they left, I'm not saying never, but i don't think it will happen whilst the same people are in charge of both organisations.

 

Given that the contract was 'run and repair' not 'repair and run', what happens next is entirely a matter for the S&DRT.

 

I am afraid there is another question: "Will the goverment forgo the tax take that it is losing?"

And they have another incentive: not only would it improve the central finances, it would simplify things - the interactions of the law and bureaucratic rules /regulations associated are actually alarming in their intricacy. A major stumbling block to those without clerical talent to engage in commerce or successfully apply for the social security they are entitled to.

That some tickets brought on the same line can qualify for gift aid and others are VAT free is not intuitively obvious.
And this is before three effective regimes for VAT:
1/ Your sales are with VAT charged at your full price but you get reimbursed for any VAT that was charged to you by your suppliers - how it usually works.
2/ Your sales are without VAT and you are entitled to get back any VAT levied on your suppliers - basic necessities:/// food, children's clothes and public transport fares. If this applies to contracted out locomotive repairs and permanent way materials/services like tamping this money saved could be substantial.
3/ You do not have to charge VAT nor can you get any allowance for the VAT your suppliers have charged you - low turnover, would be applicable to a supporting group whose major input is volunteer labour.

 

Railways - in exchange for capital expenditures in the depression that bit in the early 1930s - ceased to have to pay any rates at all on "railway hereditaments".
I presume that, operating continuously, this is at least the situation on the Tallylyn as well as Network Rail.

Given what commercial rates can be.........

 

Just on Gift Aid, the underlying policy was introduced by Gordon Brown as a simplification of the previous covenant arrangements, to encourage charitable giving - and therefore amongst other things, relax pressure on government expenditure. The complexities around visitor attractions were a resolution to issues of interpretation and the treatment of charitable places like stately homes that are disadvantaged by restricting Gift Aid to donation income.

Wearing a church hat, I'm much more concerned about the future of schemes like the Gift Aid Small Donations Scheme (genuine government expenditure, rather than just a repointing of tax payments) - with so much pre-briefing, the complete silence on this area suggests that the government are not wicket rolling for the hit to the sector.

 

Why I am concerned that carriage requirements do not explicitly include maintenance spares. To cover fixing things like a small leak, a loose door hinge, promptly.
Proverbially "A stitch in time, saves nine".

 

Which carriage(s) are going to be classified as "spares"? And what happens if they don't cover a critical type (e.g. a brake) that has an inconvenient component failure?

I'd suggest that it's better to focus on being able to fix minor failures quickly, and have enough capacity in the fleet to be able to shuffle things round in emergency than have dedicated spares.

 

Often the spares are robbed from another coach thats stopped for other reasons, but most workshops will carry spares for such things as pins, hoses, internal fittings, most things you would expect to need attention, in some cases, that includes complete bogie sets, as a bogie fault, will red card a coach, and if you have a set of lifting jacks, a bogie swop can be done in a couple of hours, and the coach back in service the next day, after a brake check.