Tornado

Which would be a pointless endeavour given that, if you had placed a booking, you would be agreeing to the terms of travel which include:

"PRIOR CANCELLATION BY 21ST CENTURY STEAM

In the event of a tour being cancelled by us at any time prior to the tour departure date, we will refund in full the price paid, by a credit to the card on which the ticket was purchased, but all liability of 21st Century Steam and its agents and contractors for any other loss, cost or expense you may incur by reason of such cancellation (including, without limitation, the cost of your travel to the intended departure station) is hereby excluded.

When travelling with us, we recommend you take out travel insurance."

 

Not only a pointless endeavour, but one that always makes me laugh when it comes to “enthusiasts” in this market. They seem to want to take something akin to pride in trying to damage the market as much as possible when things don’t go their way! The number of times I’ve heard threats of “Oh I’ll take them through the courts”, “I’ll demand a refund/extra compensation”…..Carry on…..When the market has no cash left you’ll have no trains to book on!

 

It's the only way some people learn. They do not have a right to exist.

 

Just...NO. A bloody stupid idea from you, Martin.

I've got no desire to give further market domination to Smith and especially Hosking.

 

In general, I agree. But note the timing of my hypothetical booking. At that point, the offer would have been on a false prospectus, and I don’t believe those terms would stand scrutiny.


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Well that’s the biggest two tour promoters out there then! Just Vintage for you!

 

As @The Green Howards says, tour operators don't have a right to exist. More generally, firms do well when they respect their customers and operate fairly - as you've previously highlighted from your experiences with LSL operations. Sometimes stuff happens, and that's why clauses like that are necessary. But they aren't carte blanche for companies to do as they like, and hang the consequences.

 

I don’t disagree. But I also don’t like repeated (And let’s be honest that’s what this thread is) slagging off of a business/your promoter/loco owner that’s going through some very challenging times. Some of the comments/opinions on here are completely wide of the mark, and those people don’t deserve to enjoy the A1 or indeed any form of heritage steam, no matter how many pounds they’ve put in.

Every time I’ve travelled with Tornado on heritage or mainline running ive enjoyed myself and found all of the group to be pleasent, professional and a credit to our sector. That opinion hasn’t changed just because an overhaul has been slightly protracted, nor because they’ve set some deadlines they’ve struggled to meet. If every group/operator/railway that’s had these sissies in the past faced the torrid comments and lack of support shown here, we’d no longer have a market.

 

That’s a bit harsh, I don’t think anyone has seriously suggested court action. The A1 Trust has achieved a great deal in producing the first totally new mainline locomotive since 1960 and have been an inspiration for others to follow. Having said that the world doesn’t owe them a a living, they are unique in not being a conventional preservation society where members can vote to remove the committee if they aren’t doing their job properly. The business plan asked for and got people paying considerable sums of money, in return we wanted to see an A1 or in my case a P2 built and running along with some honesty from the self appointed Trustees.
All went well until for many years but in my opinion the change came with the Ebor Flyer incident, from then on the Trust seems to have become less open and honest with its supporters, there was never an official admission about the problems with the support coach for instance. The constant changes at the top are also worrying, in the absence of any official statement the rumour mongers will take over. The constant halve truths and failure to meet commitments has cost other organisations both financially and in credibility. As an example to try and pass the blame onto a boiler inspector was a pathetic attempt at deflection and clearly a lie.
No one is trying to damage the reputation of the Trust, they have done an excellent job of that themselves and withdrawing support doesn’t mean the money is lost to the preservation movement as a whole. In my case I’ve just transferred it to what I consider a more worthy cause.

 

Every project can hit problems, and delivery dates may be delayed. That's accepted, and not unreasonable.

What's happened here is in a different order, and sticks out when compared against the Trust's previous performance.

 

Indeed - my monthly covenant will now be going to the GNRS to help with the restoration of the Diagram 245 coach they have at Quainton Road.

 

Ask anyone who's bought a new car and doesn't want what's on the forecourt: my sister's VW was supposed to be delivered in September - it's now January.

 

"Nail on head", if I may say so.

 

18 months into a 6 month overhaul isn't "slightly" delayed in anyone's money.
(And yes, it is a 6 month overhaul, as that's what the trust said it was...).

The fact that the trust was doing a last-minute sales pitch for tour tickets (regardless of the actual outcome) for what should be one of the hottest tickets in preservation should be a warning sign.

 

Excellent summation. Those with no dog in the fight please digest.

 

Sorry you’ve lost count there Mike. It’s now 30 months. Jan 22 she came out of traffic. Was due back July 22.

 

I’ve diverted the majority of mine to the Hengist project.

 

A sadly-departed and much-missed friend of mine was a supporter of that.

 

Any overhaul can hit problems ?? most definitely and reasonable people know and accept this, but they're marketing the thing over and over again...........and it's not ready to be marketed. And people are losing money because of unrealistic promises. It's ruining their reputation, David Elliot will be turning in his grave.

 

Slightly protracted overhaul? They initially said it'll be six months - it's now 24 months past that estimate! Even after the boiler came back they were still saying it'll be ready in 4 months time - that was winter 2022. With the 12 week notice period for tours, I can't see the loco doing a mainline charter this year. If it was a 2 year overhaul and it overran by 6 months, no one would say a thing. But it's not, it's the other way round.

Everyone accepts overhauls can be delayed due to various reasons - a global pandemic and a dodgy boiler that no longer fits in the frames properly after overhaul are examples. It's the press releases that say everything is fine and on track when it clearly isn't. The tours being advertised that clearly won't happen. Time and time again, false information and broken promises.

The reason they get so much vitriol is that no other loco group employs 7 full time members of staff! One or two maybe as CMEs, but not 7. And as there's no membership, there's no way of removing those who are causing all this. Since David Elliott and Mark Allatt "left", it's gone downhill with no-one seemingly taking control.