Clan Line: Victoria to Shrub Hill - 24/08/24

But it does depend on if the market, which is no longer geared to the enthusiast, sees non opening windows (rather than non functioning a/c) as in issue. I think it is well established only enthusiasts care about a diesel on the back.

 

Sadly that is my position too - with the possible exception of 35028 with no helper on an 80 minute Waterloo to Salisbury or return schedule!

My reasons for giving up on main line steam Don are perhaps different from yours. They are; my seemingly still growing intolerance to heat - not good to be in sealed coaches that are regularly reported as having poor air conditioning; with no fresh air flowing through close by open windows, a potentially higher risk of catching whatever the latest variation if Covid is - my bronchial history may well make me a higher risk; and the enormous pleasure I am getting from photographing BR SR and Std class liveried and numbered steam locos at the Spa Valley, Mid Hants, Bluebell and Swanage Railways.

Plus agility issues over fixed arm rests that I cannot remember from days gone by, but which to me now sound like a major design flaw.

Bryan - gricerdon's 'little' brother - B

 

I was in the 8th coach and could hear the noise Clan Line was making on the return climbing Sapperton!

 

Strange, but this type of coaching stock was in front line service express service for 40+ years, was very popular and was considered a major upgrade on the Mk 1s they replaced. Unlike today where people mourn the old Mk 3s replaced by the class 80x units..
These type of carriages also form the backbone of the Northern Belle set, which attracts a significant premium.
Anyway, it is all irrelevant until West Coast decide whether they want their Mk 1s compliant or not, but personally I find a Mk 1 quite uncomfortable for a 12 hour plus day.

 

But far better than an economy seat across the Atlantic, let alone to Australia.

 

Did the aircon work reliably in those days?

 

Does the air con work reliably in the Northern Belle set? I don't buy this as an excuse, just as much as some people assume vintage steam and diesel locos are unreliable because they are old. Like any mechanics it comes down to regular maintenance and if components are life expired, replacement. There are a number of 40+ year old coaches running around with air conditioning, a lot in high end railtour use. If you are paying £100s for a ticket you will be expecting working air con. You should equally expect working air con in Standard class.
I think West Coast's issue with this set is that the carriages had been mothballed in a siding for several years and were then pushed into frontline service at short notice. They perhaps hadn't had the attention they needed and Mr Smith knew it.

 

Yes but do you get an oxygen mask in the panel above your seat and a lifejacket under your seat?

 

It has been stated (on here or elsewhere, I forget) that the aircon in Mk IIs was designed to work with a coolant that is no longer allowed and that this is one reason for it working less effectively. But that wouldn't explain the times when it doesn't work at all. If that is a manifestation of coming to the end of the "bathtub curve" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve the providers of the coaches should be going to extra trouble on maintenance and on checking the operation before each trip. But I was also wondering how reliable the aircon was when the coaches were new. Also, how good or bad is it in modern coaches? Is there a case for tearing out the old equipment and installing new?

 

A Bulleid stuck behind 2C17 - almost sounds like two Bulleids!

 

It would be interesting to know what non-enthusiasts think of air-conditioned (i.e. relatively modern) coaches for their steam train experience. I suspect more than some here might think might find the juxtaposition odd and would prefer an older, more authentic environment. Whether that materially affects bookings/re-bookings is moot.

 

I think this is the kind of problem LSL faced when they took over Steam Dreams. They initially used the Mark 2 Inter City stock but apparently the travelling public didn't like it, which is why they are now having to use the same set for both Saphos and Steam Dreams workings. The general public do I think expect some "vintage" carriages to provide an authentic steam train experience. Funny that they don't complain about the diesel on the back though!

 

I think they were actually mk3s? I think that however a modern A/C coach is decorated, it can never have any real sense of authenticity or basic steam-era 'feel'. I speak as an enthusiast, of course, so I wonder what others think. As others have said, 'Northern Belle' seems OK with mk2s, so perhaps it really isn't an issue for the non-enthusiast market. The problem then becomes making the distinction between the two passenger groups regarding economical stock provision.

 

Mods this is a bit of thread drift so please feel free to move elsewhere (or throw away)

I think you may be making the point seem to linear, which I will come to in a minute, but the only people who know if bookings are impacted are the likes of RTC, Pathfinder, UK Rail, BLS and the whole range of LSL brands.
Firstly if you are comparing a fully working Mk1, with a fully working Mk2 (both probably unlikely I know) taking out the pure enthusiasts I remain unconvinced "Joe Public" sees that much difference. They're both in a config that is not common on modern trains which mainly have airline style seats with a few tables. They both have seats that tend to be more comfortable than modern trains. Then you get into a whole gamut of issues that are important to folk.
So from my long pre Covid stewarding experience there were maybe 30% diners who never have a top light open, and some of those that do complain about the "debris" coming in the window. Some of those that do not have the toplight open in all classes (especially standard where there is a higher enthusiast population normally) complain about those that do because like a modern bus, the draughts are not felt where the window is open, but further down the coach.
Yes there are enthusiasts of course in all classes but they are far fewer normally the higher up the ticket price you go.
But of course stock is rarely not carrying a lot of defects, so then the difference between Mk1 and Mk2's may mean more if people have travelled on both. On a hot day you can open all the windows on a Mk1, if the a/c worked most these days I suspect would prefer that as it is what the public have come to expect.
Likewise heating MK1 heating is patchy, often in the same coach and is on or off, a WCME in February can get pretty parky by Hellifield, let alone Preston. I have yet to see what the MK2 heating is like in the winter.
The theory says a MK1 with CDL (to keep the folks at Cabot Street happy) could be pure steam, experience shows that not to be the case. So the pure steam may not be as linear as Mk1 vs Mk2. Maybe pure steam has gone, unless you want to cough up for Belmond if they have a CDL fix of course.
You are very correct in your other post Statesman, NB sell well it seems, and obviously LSL do not even feel the need for a few Statesman steam hauled tours (or as @Big Al would say) diesel pushed tours. But some of these days (Statesman especially) are now of a mammoth length (there was a DCS on Saturday that became a 1z at 04:14 on Saturday at Nantwich, (although according to their website it started from Ludlow at the very late hour of 05:20) but these sell out, often all for only a couple of hours at the destination.
This is all before you get to the diesel enthusiast brigade who seem, from forums leaning that way, are even more opposed to coffins due to be unable to hear the thrash, a/c that never works, or perhaps being unable to hang half of their body out of the window.
And lets remember at the end of the day nothing even the work LSL does on the Mk1's stacks up against the elegance of the Belmond set.