Brighton Belle update

Being picky, the tunnels are a mix. The loop between James St - Lime St - James St, and the connection west from Central through Moorfields to the viaduct out of the former Exchange station are modern bored tunnels, not the original 19th century tunnels

 

Is Southern-region push-pull still allowed?
The 5-BEL was never used that way (AFAIK), but as it has a lot of 4-CEP innards now, maybe that would allow it to squeak in?
Stick a 33 on one end and off we go exploring... (cue people complaing about the diesel giving it help when it should be running on the juice...)

 

See post from mr 1656 (#231) who suggests that there isnt a loco available with the correct connections to be incorporated in this fashion...

 

Trouble is to make the dining experience match the price you need about 3 hours for dinner, serve, eat, coffee etc. Then time to collect the money for those mammoth bar bills.
Not sure about "brunch" but not even sure that would be too easy a non stop to Robertsbridge or Brighton for that matter. Nothing worse that being "force fed" in my opinion. Think how long the meal service takes on a regular tour.
I think it was either a Pathfinder or UKRT tour where 4 .5 hours to Birmingham International came with caveat "dining not available to and from Birmingham International"

 

Granted, but the answer is still that C1 stock will fit, the old Class 501,502, 503, and 507s fit, and during WW2, some Metropolitan stock was also sized for the line.

 

Hasn't 33111 loco been working push pull with the LU 4TC coach set at various heritage galas (27-way push -pull equipment?) and should work with the Brighton Belle if it has the right push pull kit installed?, but 33111 is not main line approved.

 

Or just breakfast out and high tea return?

 

Im sure that LSL have not done this on a whim but have a hard nosed business case to justify the expenditure. Dare I suggest W.Loo/Bomo as their bread and butter

 

Plenty of GBRf 73's?

 

I do hope that it does run from Victoria to Brighton now and again. I would like to try once again, eating a bowl of soup whilst passing over the points at Purley, just for old time's sake.

 

The entire running gear has been changed, it now i believe has BR 4B bogies, from a scrapped 4 CIG, along with the traction motors, so the ride should be less active.

 

Some 73s had push pull kit for the Gatwick express.
LSL have 73001, but may not have the push pull kit which could work with the renovated Brighton Belle?.

 

LSL have yet to publish their Brighton Belle tour plans for 2025.
So London to Brighton and London to Weymouth (via Bournemouth) are likely to be the main 3rd rail day tours?
Swanage is more complicated as it will have to pick up a diesel loco, at somewhere like Eastleigh?

 

I would imagine it will be a mix of routes, on 3rd rail , so Kent circular tours out via Dover, back via Ashford, ,victoria to Weymouth, , Victoria to Southampton, via Brighton, and the Coast way line,
Add into the mix one off destinations, such as Bognor , Possible trips in conjunction with historic events, Goodwood etc, Portsmouth harbour, then trip on Balmoral, round Isle of Wight,

 

As much as I would like to see the set sitting at Swanage not sure I see what would be in it for LSL over Bournemouth or Weymouth other than a lot of extra costs.
A diesel move to somewhere you can attach it, so why bother and not just T & T it all the way?
Paying the Swanage Railway whatever the going rate is for a railtour.
Little benefit to the town I suspect from a fully catered railtour. Maybe a few teas and coffees but can't see that much ancillary spend.

 

I wonder if a lot of the market would be luxury travel to / from existing premium events in the third rail territory: Royal Ascot, the Derby, Goodwood etc. Light refreshments each way starting from Victoria, and no need to worry about drinking during the day. Plenty of race courses in the south east of England.

Plus I suspect a lot of corporate charters: you can imagine various city firms chartering the set for corporate entertainment.

I doubt there will be lots of “day out in (insert destination of choice) for only £149, meal included” type deals advertised in the back pages of the heritage railway press.

Tom

 

I can see quite a lot of special train notices in ascot week, from Winsor & Eaton to Ascot, Pullman luxury, a small unit, Ideal for royal visitors attending the races, Whats the headcode on the Southern, for Royal train?

 

As @martin1656 hinted the traction return is the issue. On NR there is a 750V rail with return via the running rails, earthed appropriately back to the substation. On LU there's a positive and a negative rail both connected back to the substation, and if traction fault gets onto the running rails it will knock out various breakers and potentially do goodness-knows-what to anything else which is earthed to those rails.

So to run a 3rd rail unit on LU you'd need to add a central current collection shoe to the train and ensure electrical separation from the wheelsets. Not a trivial exercise.

Off topic for this thread but nice to see Sarah Siddons back. The Chiltern bit of the Met will retain fixed signals in the longer term, so some Amersham-Harrow shuttles should be possible, at least.

 

Err, Gunnersbury to Richmond and Wimbledon to Putney both share tracks between London Underground and Overground (and SWR). It's a mystery to me how it works, though!



and

 

On topic re. Sarah Siddons, London Underground did some work on her in the 1980s to allow use on 3rd rail.

I believe some careful immunisation north of East Putney and Gunnersbury to prevent the dirty SR electrification making a mess of the nice clean 4th rail return on the District Line! More seriously, I believe both sections are set up to support trains running as they normally would, without special treatment at the boundary - they certainly maintain the 4th rail throughout.