Saphos 2024

Here's my video from yesterday. Just one clip taken at Beambridge on the climb to Whiteball. At this point the 47 didn't seem to be helping at all.

 

Newton Abbot water stop is fairly simple to explain….The calculation is that an engine uses 50 Gallons of water per mile covered. It must have a reserve of 1000 gallons on that range. So SNG has a 5000 gallon tender. As such 4000 is its “range”. 4000G divided by 50G is 80 miles. Taunton to Plymouth is 83 miles. Then there is the Light engine run from Bishops Lydeard to Taunton, about 4 miles, and then the move from Plymouth to its next point of water, possibly a mile or 2. So 90 miles total. As such that is way beyond what NR will allow. The fact of being pushed/not being pushed, being worked/not being worked isn’t really accounted for, it’s 50 gallons per mile.

Personally I dispute your claims about LSL. I’ve been lineside for 7 of their trips this year, 4 over the steep gradients the S&C has and I’ve seen little, if any, diesel assistance.

In 2022 I did the White Rose, Kidderminster to York, with 46100 and every effort was made by LSL to ensure steam haulage throughout, even when they had issues on the day (NR related issues that is). In the same year I did 70000 on the ERE to Kingswear. 25 degrees, fairly dry lineside, but again all credit to LSL, I was 5 coaches back and Britannia was very audible. Last year on the last Fellsman 60007 was audible and we were 9 back. Even with a wet climb of the long Drag, the diesel wasn’t pushing. This year I’ve seen 34046, 60007 and 61306 all work trips. They’ve all been working well, little noise from the rear. I’m booked on the ERE in August, so again I’ll have a good impression of what the diesel does/doesn’t do.

Speaking to quite a few of their crews, fellow SVR volunteers, they tell me IF (Yes IF) the diesel is in “on” taking its weight plus about 2 coaches. That leaves a steady 10/11 weight for the steam to take. The driver can request more assiatnce but rarely do they. More than likely the diesel was in “on” yesterday. So perhaps it made Gresleys load 10.

Ultimately wouldn’t more businesses run bigger trains if they could? It’s the way to turn a good profit to keep these machines going. You say about VT, but tbh I’m pretty sure they maximise their coaches available. WCR are surely maximising what they have available this year too.

If WCR did “what was right for the enthusiast” they’d bosh some CDL on MK1s and run their extensive fleet of locos. Although it is funny, because the other week you were quite happily slating WCR for their inability to make a bullied sound right…..So perhaps this is more a case of when it suits.

 

Don’t let Al here the 47 wasn’t helping. He won’t believe you.

 

2500 gallons taken on at Newton Abbot in 8 minutes. Don't know who the supplier is but they used two hoses - even so, that's pretty good.

I wonder if any 47 fans got annoyed by the fact 60007 helped bank up Hemerdon on the return?!

 

"WCR did “what was right for the enthusiast” they’d bosh some CDL on MK1s and run their extensive fleet of locos. "

That Harry is a cheap dig.
We all know you love LSL and are practically an advert for them (see your practically trip advisor review of the Blue Pullman trip weirdly on the Saphos thread) that is your right, no one is denying that, good luck to you.

But these comments bashing WCR for CDL are unnecessary and cheap. They have been running CDL fitted trains for months.

 

I can just see the irate diesel fans, shouting at Gresley helping!

 

I never doubted they’d been running CDL trains. I said with MK1 coaches to allow them to use their Vac Braked locos. Can’t deny that WCR run a good trip, and considering the pressure they’ve been under this year they’ve done well to manage with 2 locos and 2 sets of Air Brake MK2s. So I definitely cannot knock them for that.

I only put the midland Pullman report on the Saphos thread as I could not see a Midland Pullman thread. I do love LSL you are correct. I’ve no problem with saying that. I also think WCR are good, possibly not as good, but still good.

 

You could of started a Blue Pullman thread?

 

I think over the South Devon Banks the max permitted load for a class 8 unassisted would probably be eight. 1 in 42 is a bit of a different proposition from 1 in 100.

 

Tbf I have no idea on how they work out loading for steam tours. I can only base the above off what I’m told. But yeah your logic sounds about right.

 

IIRC, both the Duke and the Duchess were allowed 9 in the past. I must look back at my ancient video of Blue Peter in the 90s (my first visit to Hemerdon) to see what it had that day.

 

I was more referring to how Network Rail work out the loading not LSL specifically. I’m fairly certain as with water, Network Rail have standards for loading as others have said above.

But even in the LSL case I’m not sure what you propose they do? Take 3 coaches off but put that cost on to the other passengers? So suddenly £395 for a premier dining seats becomes £495? Or do they just remove the first class/standard class coaches and run a purely premier dining service. Still £495 a ticket (Or maybe even higher) but totally forgetting those who might just want a standard seat? Oh and don’t forget they’d actually have to drop 4 off to accommodate the Generator car since I’m assuming you’d want no diesel as well?

But tbh I find mostly what they do to be relatively standard accross the board. 44932 was sent over the S&C with 10 on last year. Surely that’s no different to 45231 being sent with 12 and diesel, but the diesel taking its own weight plus two coaches? Still equates to a 5 on 10. I may be missing something.

 

It’ll all be down to risk assessment when significant grades are involved. Generally speaking, load limits over Hemerdon without assistance are:
Class 8: 10
Class 7: 9
Class 6: 8
Class 5: 7

In the case of LSL, even with the known financial backing of the company, you have to consider the cost of operating two locos. 12 coaches is the standard LSL steam set, and therefore the budget of what all charters are sold to - too much for one loco over the “severe grades” of Devon. A diesel is in consist for ETS purposes, so why spend money on extra fuel (coal, water and days steaming fee), when you could just notch up a diesel every so often. Not what the purists want to hear, but in terms of train planning, it’s a no-brainier to me.

 

Could not agree more. People also forget staffing costs, etc. I reckoned on the Midland Pullman the other day we had 6 drivers at least. It left Crewe ECS at 0230 and got back there at 0330 the following morning so there was probably more.

I suspect a standard English Riviera day needs at least 5 drivers, 2/3 guards, 30 or so stewards/waiters and so on. That’s before coal, water, oil. Train needs to cover its cost and make a good whack otherwise what’s the point.

I still think people miss the fact we are trying to run some old stuff that was effectively banned in 1968, on a 2024 modern railway with high costs, high demand to run efficiently and not much wiggle room in an already packed timetable.

 

I do wonder whether we have our first LSL influencer, it's getting very advertorial at times...

 

Am I not allowed to have a good opinion of something? I’d happily travel with other TOCs and indeed would give my thoughts on them if they ran something that interested me. Very much looking forward to 45110 running out of Carnforth being a former SVR loco. It’s certainly a trip I’ll be looking to be on, so I’ll be “advertorial” for WCR then

 

Of course you are allowed to like something and say so, it is refreshing to hear. Many of the comments on here, in keeping with much on social media, are about what people don’t like.