Tornado

And as sad as it is to say, she gets shoved around an awful lot.

 

Took 30 seconds on google to find it....

Prince of Wales details | News | Prince of Wales | A1 Locomotives (a1steam.com)

For someone purporting themselves as being an expert, your mud slinging does you no favours....

 

So if the new boiler was ready to be tubed in September, and given that the Germans have forgotten how to tube a boiler to our accepted practices then;
Why isnt it here ? ( Plenty of space at Darlington ?
Why wasnt it used in preference to the old one after all ( How long ago was the unexpected retube?)
Because the above didnt happen its clearly on a back burner now, but did all those tests get done ( 9 months later..) and were the results ok ?... all gone a bit quiet, one wonders.

 

Hold on! That news item refers to the first new boiler. It also refers to anticipated delivery "this autumn" which meant autumn 2023. That one had been well on the way before they asked Meningen to complete the overhaul of Tornado's original boiler first. Is there any update about delivery of the new one? Or about the second new one?

 

I have been going through my Mikado Messenger emails and the only update I found was in this years February issue which said: "Similarly, boiler work is continuing in Meiningen under the supervision of TUV, the German certification body, and we expect delivery later in Spring."
I have a feeling that I have seen something else about the boilers since, so will check my normal mail.

Dave B

 

The author Neville Shute in his autobiography "Sliderule" gave his opinion that in business there are two types of people involved. They are divided into the 'starters' and the 'runners', and are seldom combined in any one person, which rather looks like the situation that the A1 Trust is in.

 

You want to chalk your eyes.

The news item refers to boiler No 2 out of 3.

The first of the new boilers, intended for No. 2007 Prince of Wales, is due to be delivered this autumn.

Our team, lead by Chairman Steve Davies, were in Germany in early september to meet with DB Meiningen to discuss progress.

As the pictures show, the work is at an advanced stage. Given recent issues with Tornado's boiler, all parties are being careful to ensure all works are to the correct standard and to that end, the involvement of the certification body, Technischer Überwachungsverein (TÜV), is important.

 

That’s referring to the boiler that was due to be put on Tornado and is now apparently going on the P2. I’m talking about the second new boiler of which all I have seen is a few barrel rolling and the forged firebox corners. You need to check the detail here as they are being deliberately opaque.

 

And this first new boiler, effectively No. 2 of 3, is almost 2 years late.

 

Just to clarify and set the record straight …

The order on DB Meiningen was for two new boilers to a modified design of firebox.

The first new boiler was to be fitted to Tornado as part of the overhaul. (The old boiler would then be re-engineered to the new spec, at some point in the future, to become the spare).

The second new boiler was for rhe P2.

The boiler featured in the article you reference is the FIRST new boiler, now long over due.

This boiler is now destined for the P2, since the Trust board made the decision to refurbish the original boiler in order to ‘save time’ on the overhaul. (At the next annual Covenantors meeting following that decision, we were assured that this change would have no effect on the delivery time of the new boilers, as ‘different teams’ are involved).

As has subsequently transpired there was no time saving, due in part to Covid, but more avoidably the issues with the tubes and stays (ongoing?). Ultimately this all culminated in the clash between the firebox throatplate area and the rear driving wheels, which forced the removal of a significant amount of ‘tread’ from the brand new tyres in order to achieve an acceptable clearance.

So whilst fingers are being pointed at the ETMS, my belief is that the loco would be no further forward without this, as the boiler has taken just as long, the stays still being worked on again into June 2024.

 

21 June 2019 press release

Boilers - an heir and a spare!
The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust places million-pound order for two new boilers for steam locomotives Prince of Wales and Tornado.

We are pleased to announce that we have placed a £1m order with Dampflokwerk Meiningen (Steam Locomotive Works Meiningen) for two new Diagram 118a boilers for our two new steam locomotives.

The order is to supply the boiler for new Gresley class P2 No. 2007 Prince of Wales and a ‘spare’ boiler for use on both No. 2007 and No. 60163 Tornado, which has just completed its first decade of operations since completion in 2008. This order will enable the Trust to rotate the three identical boilers on its two locomotives, with two boilers operational and one ‘spare’ undergoing overhaul at any one time. DB Meiningen delivered Tornado’s original boiler in July 2006.

This strategic move by the Trust will reduce the time out of traffic for each locomotive by around four months, increase the potential revenue earned by both locomotive during each operational cycle and reduce the cost of their overhauls. By ordering both boilers at once and leveraging the purchasing power of the supporters of both locomotives, the Trust has saved a six-figure sum that would have otherwise been required if the two boilers had been procured separately.

The first new boiler, to be fitted to Tornado during her next overhaul, will be delivered in September 2020 with the second, to be fitted to Prince of Wales, scheduled to be delivered in July 2021. The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust ran a competitive tender process for the procurement of the two new boilers, contacting eight companies from across the UK, Europe and the USA; some of the potential suppliers excluded themselves due to the size and scale of the project to provide just one diagram 118a boiler. Others were not taken forward by the Trust based upon considerations which included their capability, capacity, track record, cost and ability to deliver on schedule. The shortlisted companies were then invited to cost the project before submitting best-and-final-offers.

 

The start of a boiler ticket can be something of a moveable feast, to be agreed between the builder and their insurance company. Just because the tubes are in and it has been filled with water to inspect for leaks doesn’t mean the ticket automatically has to start.

At some point you’ve got to have a finished boiler both to ensure it fits, and to fit other pieces to order (such as the crinolines and cladding). For a large loco like 2007 which has never previously existed and in which the boiler and frames have never been previously united, I suspect you need to do that trial fit way in advance of it ever running. You can measure all you like, but ultimately it is only when you lower the boiler that you know for sure it fits and is level.

Otherwise, you can chance it, get all the testing done late and then find it doesn’t fit …

Tom

 

….. unusually, in the case of the P2, the crinolines and cladding are already manufactured and have been sat on the frames in the past, to give an impression of the finished article.

 

Better hope in due course they fit then

Tom

 

Others are having problems with Meiningen's work. The owners of Swiss-based Pacific 01 202 have just been informed that their boiler, which is meant to be going back in the frames shortly ready for test runs in September, has serious cracking in the foundation ring and requires replacement. The boiler has been undergoing overhaul since last April and only now have Meiningen discovered the cracking.



There's another loco (I can't remember which one and I can't find the link on Facebook again), essentially their boiler was overhauled two years ago and now needs to come out of the frames to fix all the faults that have manifested themselves since.

I understand part of the reason why the Harz have built their own works is due to the quality of Meiningen's work decreasing in recent years, along with increased costs. It can't be cheap transporting every loco hundreds of miles every time it needs a full overhaul.

 

I have sometimes wondered if that was counterproductive - that indeed it made the P2 look more finished than it actually was which may have impacted upon fundraising.

 

Please re-read what I wrote. Boiler 2 is the first new one.

 

Let us call them Alfa,Bravo and Charly