Vintage Trains 2024

The Mersey Express on Saturday passing through Hartford on the return to Tyseley.

 

Rarely post on NP these days but thought I'd drop this in as we actually went on this train. Sad there are rarely any posts of timings and speeds on here these days.

A quest for proper steam in 2024

Sadly diesel assistance has become the depressing norm with Saphos and Steam Dreams trains; RTC's trains are diesel assisted and can't even offer carriages with panoramic windows and opening toplights; then there's Vintage Trains who do offer unassisted steam now and again, but the vast majority of their Mainline Expresses with their Class 47 on the rear. Consequently So far in 2024 we've only been out on one tour, the 16th March's enjoyable proper steam hauled Shap Mountaineer and had only the potentially double headed castle Mayflower in September booked.

Much as I love ex-GWR Castles, we gave up on Vintage Trains with diesels on the rear after being shoved around in 2021 despite having been promised unassisted trains. Watching most lineside filming last year and early this, the Class 47 was passive, showing no signs of open air intakes or smoke from the stack; but the filming was limited in locations. Have things really changed? In Carlisle on the Mountaineer we asked Alistair. He told us in no uncertain terms that their diesel will ONLY assist if requested to by the driver other than in exceptional circumstances outside VT's control. VT's 'usual' consist of 7+POB+GUV and the ubiquitous Class 47 is close to the Network Rail Class 7 432 ton limit. Class 7 ex-GWR and ex-BR double chimney Castles are well capable of handling this load unassisted over all but the steepest banks.

At a Monday Club in April a casual comment was made over a pint or two about going to Liverpool behind 5043 as a sort of trial train. Seemed like a good idea so I booked a 4+4 in Tourist Class on the Mersey Express as it looked like there could be 6 if not 7 of us. In the end there was just the core 4 of us travelling. The route isn't taxing with mostly gently rising and falling gradients. The exception is the mile+ 93r climb out of Lime Street. I made up Timing Sheets in the hope that mileposts would be visible and there would be some high speed running to record with 5043 at the head of the train. This was how our day went.

The Mersey Express, 1st June 2024; a dry day with sunny spells but a cool breeze

We drove to the Locomotive Works Car Park. The train was in the new shed where the 'replacement' Warwick Road platform with the Class 47 ticking over on the rear. The starting point was going to be here but late on it was changed to Tyseley Mainline. We met John and Judith who'd overnighted in a Premier Inn in the car park and strolled up to the station. We were surprised how busy it was with freight and Chiltern DMUs and noisy Class 68 hauled Expresses passing, as well as Snow Hill, Whitlock's End, and more frequent Kiddy and Stratford stoppers. We watched the Castle haul the train up the yard and then heard the diesel pulling the train through the sidings. We were pathed out at 0913 between the 0903 and 0933 Kiddy trains. Soon after the 0903 service left, our consist was released and the Class 47 led up the bank out of the carriage sidings and then about a mile or so down the mainline. Heard a long whistle and the loud bark of 5043 lifting the train and then crossing over to bring it into Platform 4. Alistair was in the driver's seat for the outward run.

We were in Coach E, one from the back, a coach and a half from the Class 47 so we'd hear it if it cut in. John and I had the table on the left for the WCML posts leaving the ladies to share the other table with Di calling out the GWR posts on the short run down to Bordeseley Jn. Top lights open to hear 5043 and worth the cost to have lots of room. We were off right time with no help from the Class 47 so we had a good start to the day listening to 5043 effortlessly lifting the 450 ton train. We love the 4 cylinder sound of Castles and we heard some getting to 27 down the 528f through Small Heath. We trundled through Bordesley, Grand and Proof House Junctions then it got noisy up the short 57r/58r/53r to South Tunnel where, as expected, the 47 kicked in to allow 5043 to be 'shut down' to keep smoke to a minimum through the tunnel and into New Street. We arrived right time.

The 47 assisted away from the station up through North and Arena tunnels, 77r, again to minimise smoke. We left the tunnel at 32.3. Once the train was out in the open air, the 47 shut off rather abruptly and we felt a couple of tugs as 5043 took the weight of the whole consist on the drawbar. Nice sound as 5043 accelerated over the 2 miles+ averaging 200r and then roared a bit through Smethwick Rolfe Street at 47.8. Nice to be on the 'main'. Down 3 miles of around 300f through Sandwell and Dudley at 60.4; then over the canal on the level at 58.5. Plenty of noise heard 8 back and 5043 looked superb through the big windows on left hand curves. Sadly visible mileposts were in short supply due to excessive growth of lineside vegetation. That was to be the case for a lot of the day as the lineside is in a shocking state these days.

We were slowed through Dudley Port, 13.7 before 5043 accelerated noisily to a max of 46.2 a mile down the gentle gradient. Same through Coseley, mp9 1/2, passed at 15.6 - possibly platform clearances?. Signals green and over undulating gentle gradients we passed mp11 at 50. At mp 11 1/2 the brakes cut in for Wolverhampton approach. Nice sound climbing the 232r Crane Street viaduct but due to the slow passages of the stations we arrived in the black and gold station 8 down.

We left 7 down for the run down to Penkridge and on to Stafford. From north junction there's a mile and a half of 101f over Bushbury Viaduct where Alistair rapidly got the beastie to 68.9. Love the even beat of the 4 cylinders and we heard quite a bit of it 8 back. Incidentally the rear TSO was empty so stewards invited passengers to sit in the carriage if they were seated around tables for 4 with strangers. Nice touch. At the junction the gradient changed to 336f for over 4 miles. We were slowed across the junction, mp14 1/2ish; then speed rose to 73.1 by mp16 3/4. By the end of the 336f we were bowling along at 75.8. Generous 75 mph running from mp19, 305f then 321f and 463f to Penkridge, between mp23 1/4 & 1/2, all passed at a generous 75. A mile+ of level track to mp24 1/2 saw little change in speed and we ran at 73/4 down to mp26 1/2 where the brakes came in. We ran slower through Stafford Trent Valley Jn, 38.4 and ran into Stafford 2 down. We left 1 down.

We haven't been on this part of the WCML for years and never down Searchlight Lane. Away 1 down and 5043 must have thought of the GWML with 2910r for a couple of miles. Noisy running as Alistair got 5043 up to 50.1. Speed held in the 50s over 4 miles of 517r to mp139 and we passed Little Bridgeford Jn, mp137 1/2ish, at 58, speed held up the gentle rise to Madeley Jn, mp149 1/2. From Searchlight Jn, end of 517r, there are 4 1/2m of 509r where we thought we'd get to 70+ but we only got 66 and a bit at mp143. Down 2 miles of 590r and only 67 at mp144 1/2. From mp145 over the 3 3/4m of 398r 5043 remained close to 66. We passed mp148 1/4, level, at 67. From there it's down the 9 1/2 miles to Crewe. The first 2 miles were 348f with Madeley Jn, mp149 1/2, passed at 71 as 5043 enjoyed 'weight off' running.

We left the 348f at mp150, at 72.2 then got to 75 over the 177f at mp151. Another 2 miles of 177f followed with a generous 75 the order of the day down this and the 4 miles of 269f to Crewe Basford Hall where the brakes came in and we came to a brief stand at Crewe South Jn. We rolled into Platform 12 at Crewe 8 down. Decent running with 15 miles at 75 ish.

We had 45m+ at Crewe so John and I went wandering down to the front. Had a chat with Alistair who confirmed 5043 was running beautifully. The coal Simon was feeding the long narrow firebox came from one of the '....stans', a bit too close to Russia for comfort. It burns well and isn't too smoky unless gradients get very steep. I recognised someone admiring 5043 and said hello to Steve Underhill, engineer supreme who was responsible for the fine mainline performances over many years of 6024, our much missed King. Met Steve for the first time in Quainton Road in 1987 when we went to find an ex-GWR King that was being overhauled to mainline standard. The loco was there minus boiler coupled to a lined out Collett 4,000 gallon tender being towed up and down a siding.

We had a long chat with Steve and Ange about the sad events that lost the Society ownership of 6024. Not going into them here. It was always illuminating and enjoyable talking to Steve about the original rebuild to mainline standard and then through 2 further 10 year overhauls, the last at Tyseley Locomotive Works. Steve kindly let us travel in the POB on a number of occasions to both time and record the magnificent machine on its travels around the country. We were serious supporters of 6024, travelling on 122 mainline tours covering 21,912 miles.

6024's final tour on her third ticket was an excellent Torbay Express on March 17th 2012. It went to the West Somerset to see out its ticket and the overhaul commenced there in the summer of 2012. It took 11 years. With 6024 looking complete and having run a short distance in Minehead, LSL brought it to Crewe on low loaders where surprisingly it remains languishing in their depot for about a year with no return to steam in sight.

Back to the train. Once water had been taken - not that rapidly as the hydrant seals leaked like a sieve when the standpipe was connected - Alistair whistled up and we left for the relatively short run to Lime Street. Crewe has mp158 in the station and again, shades of Brunel's GWML for 5043 as the first 4 1/4 miles are on the level. Plenty of noise heard back in Coach 8 and steadily increasing speed to leave it at 60 at mp162 1/4. Downgrade then varying from 2985f to 300f to Winsford, mp165 1/4, 71.8. The next 3 miles were mostly 419f and speed rose nicely to a very generous 75 at mp168 3/4. Then it got noisier over 1 1/2m of 360r and 5043 roared through Hartford, mp169 3/4 at 74 and speed stayed around 74 down grade to mp172 with a 74.7 on a short level bit.

Nice bit of noise as the gradient changed to 337r across Weaver Jn, 65. The 337r ended at mp175, 64; then 3/4m of 151r saw speed fall to 59. Noisy over the mile+ of 101r to mp177, 51.2. Gentle braking took speed back to 45 down the 3/4m of 549f, mp175, 44.8. We crossed Halton Jn on the 115f at 59 before the brakes cut in down the 101f to Runcorn, 20. We crossed the long viaduct slowly, leaving the 114f at 28. Undulating gradients then and a noisy 5043 on the rising bits, 3 miles averaging 200r took us past mp186 at 44. Through Speke, 359f, 50 and 259f to mp187 1/2, 60. More sound drifting back on the 320r average to mp189 1/2, 61, before the brakes came in and we drifted down through the tunnels and cuttings from Edge Hill into Lime Street. The final mile+ was down the 93f that would be very noisy on the return. We arrived at Platform 1 just 3 minutes down. Only 3 miles more at 75ish north of Crewe but on the whole a very enjoyable run.

Four go to Liverpool

We decided to eat in the splendid Wetherspoons, the North Western Hotel alongside the station. The pub is in the former London and North Western Railway's Hotel. It was crowded but on the 2nd floor we found a couple of small tables to put together. John and I went down to the bar and ordered pints of the excellent Titanic Plum Porter and J2Os for the ladies. As it was so crowded around the bar, I tried and for once managed to successfully order on the App. Got a discount of £6.51 probably for using it. With the food order I switched beer to The Mancunian, an excellent Pale Ale, while John stayed with the Plum Porter. Di asked for a glass of Villa Maria. The food came quicker than expected and was very good. After lunch we wandered down to the Pier head. The mascots wanted to see the Liver Birds. They were furious they were tethered as the bear and his minder wanted to call them down to feed them. Weird pair!!! They don't like Liverpool now.

There was a stage set up on the harbour side for a concert for the launch of a monstrous Cunard Cruise ship on Monday. One of their Cruise Ships was docked belching out lots of brown smoke into the atmosphere. Hate the things. We wandered around and ended up at The Pump House. It still has the original superb tall brick chimney that Fred Dibnah would have loved. Bit disappointed it was a Greene King Pub, but they had an interesting sounding Guest Ale, a citrusy IPA called Waterloo Sunset that we tried. Tasty pint.

On the way back we decided to "do" the Metro from St James to Lime Street in the hope of riding on a Stadler 777. Just missed one but another 777 came in a few minutes later. Huge improvement on the old units. Quite comfortable and not too noisy. We liked the sliding steps from the train to the platform. Pity Hitachi IEPs don't have them.

We popped into the superb 1905 built Crown Hotel. Superb exterior and interior and only a very short walk from the station. If you are in Liverpool it's well worth a visit. Bit noisy and crowded as there was a hen party group doing the rounds. John had a Rochdale Brewery ruby ale but I fancied something lighter so had a well kept St Austell Proper Job. Both were excellent. No time for a second so back to the station.

The Return run

The train was in Platform 10 and we wandered up to have a chat with the crew. Kevin was driving on the return with Sam his fireman. Kevin confirmed the diesel would be on tickover up the bank and would only be used as this morning around New Street. The train was in the same formation as on the outward having run from Lime Street via Rainhill and Earlstown before reversing at Spring Bank Junction on the way to Warrington Bank Quay, where it was stabled in the up goods sidings.

Top lights wide open ready for the off. a long whistle and right time away. Almost. As Kevin tried to ease 5043 away up the helpful 1/4m of 502r, not a lot happened as 5043 was on 'top dead centre'. We rolled back a very short distance then felt the tug and heard a loud "bark" from the Castle as it lifted the train. Great echo around the cuttings and through the tunnels as we climbed the 93r with showers of small bits of unburnt coal bouncing on the carriage roofs and a few onto our table! We left the last short tunnel at 24 and made a fine sight rounding the left hand curve, smoke rising vertically. The gradient eased to 135r and we blasted through Edge Hill at 29.6 with many whistles from 5043 and waves from happy photographers and others. An excellent noisy, smoky climb with absolutely nothing from the diesel.

'Over the top', past the Alstom Depot and onward down falling gradients we were a bit disappointed not to hit 70 down through Mossley Hill, 113f, 61.6; West Allerton, mp189, 331f, 64.2 and a max of 66 through Liverpool South Parkway, 305f. All down grade to Dutton where we got to 74.5 at mp184 1/4, 180f, and a 75.4 at mp183 1/4. After Dutton East Jn the gradient rises for close to 5 miles. Lovely sound from 5043 up the 1 1/2m+ of 114r to Runcorn before speed fell for the restriction over Runcorn Viaduct, crossed at 14ish. Lovely noisy pick up through Runcorn, mp180 1/2, 145r, 28.3 and after 3/4m of 101r/1m of 115r we passed the end of the climb, mp178 1/2, 158r/323f, at 34.4. Down gradients as steep as 101f, we passed mp176 1/4 at 52.9 before braking for Weaver Jn. We were held at a signal for a few minutes due to a late running Glasgow-Euston and had a nice noisy mile and a half of 330r. At mp173 1/4 we were up to 34 but then gentle braking took us back to 25 through Acton Bridge before we were stopped just after mp171, 440r, for a few minutes due to a track circuit failure.

Restarts are always nice and noisy with a Castle up front and we left 3/4m of 1981r at 38 just before Hartford. 3/4m later on the 360r we got to 51.4. Nice on the 2 miles of 419r, left at mp166 1/4 at 55 before gentle braking on the 2220r to Winsford, mp165 1/4, 47, held over the next 1 1/4m of 330r. Bit more gentle climbing to mp162 1/2, 411r, passed at 55 before 5043 was worked gently over the 5 miles on the level to arrive in Platform 12 at Crewe just 2 minutes down. Entertaining enough but we did hope for more 75 mph running down the falling grades. That's just us being greedy!

We left 6 down and at South Jn began 8 1/2 miles of gently rising gradients from mp157 3/4. Only saw 2 posts on the 1 1/4m of 330r, mp157 1/4 passed at 33.4. Didn't pick up any posts until mp153. From mp156 1/2 there was close to 4 miles of 269r, Basford Hall Jn passed at 50 ish. Then there was 3m+ of 177r. We passed mp153 at 51.8; mp151 at 51; then on the 2m of 348r, Madeley Jn, 53; end of section at mp148 1/2 at 56.4. We were a bit disappointed with the 14m+ of falling gradients to Stafford as our max was 69.5 at Little Bridgeford Jn. We arrived in Stafford 10 down. Nice bark as Kevin got away on the mile of 2910f and onto the 642r at Stafford Trent Valley Jn, 24.8. good pick up on the 642r with sound heard in our coach as we got to 44.6. on the 1/2m level we got close to 50.there's 2 1/2m of 390r then and we had a noisy climb to pass the end at mp24 3/4 at 56.7. More noise on the 1 1/2m level track, left at mp23 1/2 at 60.7. Penkridge, 60.8, is on the start of 2 1/4m of 463r. No visible mileposts until the 1/4 past the end, mp21 1/4, 163r/321r, 59.

The remainder of the run to Wolverhampton is close to 9 miles on gentlish rising gradients. We heard 5043 over most of it and saw the mostly white exhaust on the left hand curves. We passed mp21, 463r, at 58.8; mp21, 463r, at 58; mp19, 305r, at 57.4. then there was a over 4 miles of 336r from mp18 3/4 to Bushbury Jn, mp14 1/2ish. We passed mp18 at 55.6; mp17 at 53; mp16 at 43.4. not sure if the falling speed down to 33.5 at Bushbury was a sign of a long day or just easing running to the junction. The gradient steepened to 101r from mp14 1/2, 30 ish. Found mp13 3/4, 21.4; then we crossed Bushbury Viaduct at 14. 5043 barked up the 1/4m of 75r towards the station where we arrived 14m down. Decent enough for late evening after a long day.

From Wolverhampton it's all downgrade to Perry Barr North Jn as we went the 'slow line' via Portobello Jn, Darlaston Jn and Bescot. Sharp 80f down to Portobello, 35; then down 3m+ of 330r to Darlaston Jn, mp10. Spotted mp10 3/4, 53.2 but missed the rest. Eased a bit from Darlaston to 550f for almost 3 miles from mp9 1/4. We passed mp9 at 43.8; Bescot Stadium at 42.5; mp8 at 47.7; Tame Bridge Parkway at 51.8 and end of section at 55 ish. Easing more to 625f down to mp3 1/4, 60 and going well but on the mile of 288f the brakes came in. We passed Hamstead at 27.6; crossed Perry Barr North Jn at 19. Not got a gradient profile to Perry Barr West Jn but we had a max of 33.3. Through Soho East Jn at 11 and South Jn at 17. Bit of a bark from 5043 on the 291r/587r, mp1 1/4, 20.2 on the approach to Arena tunnel. We dropped down into the tunnels and into New Street to arrive 8 minutes down. Again the 47 cut in to ease us away right time through the station and out of South Tunnel. Nice bit of noise climbing past St Andrews, 19.8. We crossed Bordesley Jn, 117f, at 16; then 5043 made a bit of noise up the 528r to Small Heath South Jn, 24 before drifting into Tyseley Mainline only 1 down by the station display.

Nipped up front to say thank you to Kevin and Sam and to give them something towards the Footplate Drinks Fund before they pulled away from the station.

We really enjoyed our day out with Vintage Trains. We got an entertaining Proper Steam Hauled train. Performance wise it was pretty much as expected though the return lacked the miles of 75 mph running of the outward. No idea what the fire was like and didn't have enough time to ask Sam. The superb climb out of Lime Street was definitely the highlight.

Thanks to Vintage Trains for running the train and to the Locomotive Works for turning out the immaculate 5043 that did all that was asked of it. Thanks to our excellent drivers Alistair and Kevin; and their excellent firemen, Simon and Sam who kept the fire fed admirably.

Thanks to the stewards and guard. The atmosphere on the train was a very friendly one with clear announcements and information given to passengers. Particular thanks to our coach's steward who helped mop up the Hobgoblin Ruby off our table after John knocked his half full glass over. Fortunately he didn't knock my 1/3rd full bottle over!! Thanks to Network Rail for allowing the train out on the big railway and for good regulation all day. We guess the long stopover at Crewe on the outward run was both to take on water and wait for a path amongst the many Lime Street trains.

After a short discussion at Monday Club I booked us a 4+4 on the Cathedrals Express to Cardiff. Been a long time since we had a run over the testing Marches Route in both directions. We're looking forward to some good hill climbing on the 22nd with no interference from the Class 47.

Footnote: On this train I passed 171,000 miles on my 948th UK Mainline Proper Steam Hauled Rail Tour; 4,359 of the miles have been on 24 runs behind "The Earl". Great hobby we have.

 

Great to hear such a positive report. From my perspective, at the moment VT are the only operator of mainline steam that is doing everything right.

Table for 4 booked in Tourist Class for the Mayflower trip. Let’s hope that by then Network Rail will have removed any lineside vegetation that could come into contact with trains using this route!

Also hoping that in the event that Tourist Class is at the rear on the outward leg, that the entire train will not be turned at Plymouth.


Nick M.

 

I’m so pleased to hear you and Di enjoyed your VT day out. Like you, I have a strong preference for unassisted steam and so far this year my only railtours have been the Shap Mountaineer and 1Z48 for that reason. Very tempted by The Mayflower but just weighing it up against the Moors gala…

 

Pretty sure somewhere I came across tickets for that trip priced at £800 per person which makes the normal Saphos trips seem cheap and would imply that if you want a short train you will need to be willing to pay even more for it. Unfortunately I can't seem to find where I found it any more but the same people were offering seats on Belmond trips for less than they were selling the Saphos one and much closer to normal Belmond prices.

 

It certainly is a bargain. We have a booking for six on 30th June. [BJ]

 

Does anyone know which Castle is on tomorrow's run to North Wales? Many thanks

 

Info with tickets says 7029.

Also says the train reverses at Chester on the outbound and will be diesel hauled to Llandudno Junction, with steam from there on the return.

 

Thanks for a lovely write up and really glad you enjoyed your day - the climb out of Lime Street certainly had the hairs standing up on the back of my neck - Alex the afternoon guard. I'm back there tomorrow but sadly this time I'll have charge of a pair of class 158s or 170s which tackle the climb in a reasonably efficient but soulless manner!

 

Cheaper than most preserved railways these days and you get a proper 75mph ride and a visit to beautiful Stratford upon Avon!

 

Another week and another Castle in Staffordshire, Clun Castle at Mill Meece under an overcast sky.

 

Spoon & Spooner!

 

A lovely evening in Cheshire and Staffordshire.
7:20 pm 7029 at Bunbury masking the silhouette of Beeston Castle with hazy exhaust as it nears the summit of the climb from Chester.
8:15pm climbing again a mile south of Madeley as the shadows lengthen.

 

A video from Stafford of the return leg of the Ffestiniog Express...

 

Clun at Stafford, in the morning getting ready for the climb up to Madeley summit once the Pendolino in the adjacent platform has departed and then catching the last rays of the evening sun during the set down stop.

 

7029 at Tilston (just beyond Beeston Castle) & heading away from Crewe on the evening return.


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Phil

 

I am not sure how they can charge that without making a big loss when nearly all of the heritage railways are putting thier prices up, and costs are increasing (price of coal etc).

When I used to do it I to joined on the afternoon departure from Snow Hill, but it seems you cannot do that anymore. They must have a good reason for that. Maybe people getting on in Birmingham in the afternoon delays the departure?

Will try and do the trip this year, but don't know if I trust the big railway enough to get to Stratford on time. With prices that low I would assume the trains will be full and I would need to get to Stratford early to get a window seat.