V2 4771 Green Arrow to return?

At least, the loco is available to view, rather than locked away in a shed, Will it ever stream again, i have to say, i doubt if it will, Antony Coulls made it clear in his podcast , that the NRM will only countenance a new monobloc if its a like for like casting, and of course they won't want to pay for it, any restoration has to be at someone else's expense, but the museum sets the rules, its their property,

 

Why not just accept that how someone else feels is how they feel, even if that may be unreasonable to your mindset.?

 

It's the Nation's property... the museum is the guardian

 

Given that restoration to running condition will not happen any time soon, and probably never, where would you prefer this loco to be? Of have you no real interest in it at all?

 

There's nothing wrong with preferring that a static locomotive would be running somewhere, but why go to the effort of insisting in doing so in such a way to detract publicly from what's been achieved for a small, local museum? The easier option would just be to say nothing at all and let the museum and public get on with enjoying their wonderful new exhibits.

Just an idle thought; in the minds of those unhappy few, when does a loco go from being stored pending overhaul to being 'stuffed an mounted'? Does it matter? Is there any difference if there's no actual plan in place for a stored loco other than 'it will have a place in the queue one day'?

 

Well, in reality steam engines don't get stuffed and rarely get mounted.

 

I’m sure theres a joke about where baby steam engines come from in there somewhere…

 

A couple of video's of 60800 from a time long ago have appeared, and well worth a watch..

Green Arrow in the 90`s

Green Arrow in the 90`s Part 2

 

My thought is a new build V2 might be a much more useful engine than P2...

 

I'm not sure whether a new build mono-block cylinder casting would be possible. They were thought of as the pinnacle of casting processes in the 1930s and I'm not sure that such a thing would be possible today.
My thoughts are to rebuild the engine with the three separate cylinders as per the other re-builds and put the casting an display either at the NRM or the Science Museum

 

The monoblocs were cast and machined at Gorton Works.

 

The pinnacle of casting processes with respect to steam locomotives was the cast steel bed which first appeared in the 1920s and was produced by the Commonwealth Steel Company. Today fabrication is the route taken. The new build P2 has a fabricated cylinder block produced by Howco in Irvine and this is a larger and more complicated block than the iron casting fitted to the V2s. The T1 Trust working in the USA is going for a fully welded version of the cast steel bed and you could say about time too given that the French were working on this kind of construction some 70 years ago.
Green Arrow is preserved not only because it was the first member of the class but also because it was complete as designed with the cylinder monoblock. If and when it is decided to overhaul the V2 this will give the chance to fully inspect the existing casting. If it can be repaired with modern techniques, well and good. If not then a fabricated replacement is the next step. This would be less prone to cracking than cast iron and would be in keeping with the trends in locomotive development. The world was moving away from unnecessarily bolting and riveting together a myriad of individual parts a century ago.

 

Have NRM given any indication whatsoever of relaxing their requirements around retaining the historical integrity of their collection as they were in service?

What you suggest seems entirely logical - but also applies a fundamentally different logic to that hitherto seen from NRM.

 

@35B On this forum, in 2014, Anthony Coulls (NRM) said (about the Monobloc/cylinders):
"When the V2 was preserved, locos were selected because they were the first/oldest/most original survivor of their class. Green Arrow was available so was selected. The single casting cylinders were significant but not the be all and end all. We don't know that they aren't repairable - there would need to be a survey with the loco dismantled, but it's not the Arrow's time at present."

The 2019 NRM Rail Vehicle Policy document doesn’t say it will be overhauled but does list Green Arrow as one of only 3 NRM locos (Flying Scotsman & Oliver Cromwell being the others) which could realistically be considered for main line operation by the NRM in the 2019-2034 period. It points out Green Arrow’s overhaul might be expensive & complex therefore it’s not the current priority but might still take place during this time period. The monobloc isn’t mentioned.

Of course, that policy’s getting out of date now.

 

This is one loco I would happily dip into my pocket to see return to steam, I fear though it needs someone significantly far more wealthy than me!!

 

Does anyone know if Green Arrow is gonna stay in Doncaster until a possible eventual overhaul? I was just wondering if potentially a swap might happen to allow Green Arrow back to York and for another locomotive to go to Doncaster. I thought the intention was originally for Green Arrow to be there temporarily.

 

I think a new one could be cast, its not beyond the current engineering capability.

Im yet to be convinced its not weld-repairable, iv never see the crack. Has anyone got images of it?

 

Which says that Green Arrow was both first and most original. The point about condition is well made; my question to @242A1 is about what might be permissible approaches to addressing whatever the issues may be.

 

I spoke to Richard Gibbon years ago, the cylinders are not repairable, not on;ly beccasue of the cracjs, but they are also out of line so thinner on one side than the other.

 

I think it's quite clear from the 2019 policy and from Anthony's earlier comments that in 2019 NRM did not have a definitive answer to that question but that GA was one of only 3 locos which "could realistically be considered for main line operation".

I'd take that as a good sign since the NRM team including Anthony Coulls, were well aware of the monobloc dilemma - but did not feel the need to mention it when they wrote that strategy making it clear GA could be considered.

I expect there will be no definitive answer unless or until there is the prospect of a serious proposal (i.e. backed up with money).