Riley and Son Ltd: Locomotive Engineers

Richard Roper · Mar 12, 2023

Another example of Riley & Sons' excellent work. My photo, taken March 12th. 2023

Richard.

Chris86 · Mar 12, 2023

LMS2968 said: ↑

Realistically, all this is little to do with Riley's as such, but since we've started on frame cracking and Black Fives, let us continue. They weren't the only LMS class to suffer, nor was the LMS the only railway. Ex-LNWR engines were generally bad, although the removal of the centre bearing without any counter measure probably accounts for this. But another class to suffer was the Royal Scots, many receiving new frame plates on rebuilding with 2A boilers and I've read that some had complete new frame assemblies. But to return to Stanier and the Black Fives.

The idea behind these engines was the ability to go anywhere, and weight and axle loading were major issues in the design which took time to resolve; it is said the the final details were worked out by Vulcan Foundry before 5020 appeared. The Traffic people were already clamouring for fifty more Class 5s (Horwich Crabs) and the Fives wouldn't be ready in time; they got ten Crabs and then forty of Stanier's taper boiler variant as an interim measure. The methods used to save weights were partly new but partly established - or to become established - practice (i) frame thickness was reduced from 1 1/16" to 1"; (ii) the number of stretchers was reduced - this was because it was believed that too many provided excessive stiffness and flexibility became the order of the day, and (iii) hornblocks were replaced by separate axlebox guides which provided no support to the top corners of the horn gaps. It is notable that most, although not all, Black Five frame cracks originated in these locations, quite logically most at the tops of the driving horn gaps.

Repair was not a simple weld job, although this was usually tried as an interim measure, but unsuccessfully. The (slightly more) permanent cure was to cut out a section of the frame and weld in a new piece, which generally lasted five years or more before the trouble recurred.
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One of the 2 groups at the Colne Valley did quite a good write up about frame cracks on Black 5s as their example has evidence of BR era repairs, I can't remember which though.

Regards

Chris

ghost · Mar 13, 2023

Chris86 said: ↑

One of the 2 groups at the Colne Valley did quite a good write up about frame cracks on Black 5s as their example has evidence of BR era repairs, I can't remember which though.

Regards

Chris
Click to expand...

I think this might be the page you are referring to:
http://www.besps.org/Progress01.htm

Search the page for 'The ‘Black Five’s’ Achilles Heel'

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Riley and Son Ltd: Locomotive Engineers

Richard Roper Well-Known Member

Chris86 Well-Known Member

ghost Part of the furniture

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Riley and Son Ltd: Locomotive Engineers

Richard Roper Well-Known Member

Chris86 Well-Known Member

ghost Part of the furniture

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