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Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    The unexpected can always happen...that's simple fact...whether boiler tubes or life in general...
     
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  2. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    I think it would be unfair to sensationalise some of the more juicy snippets that were mentioned today, suffice to say, the pictures say a thousand words.....
     
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  3. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    They can! And they have! And not just with 60163 either.
     
  4. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I think there were pictures of newly installed tubes on "Morayshire" that provided for more evidence of how the installation of tubes could go badly wrong.....
     
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  5. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    ...And hasn't yet re-entered service.

    Richard.
     
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  6. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Clearly what might have been acceptable once isnt now, does DB have different sets of standards that applies to locomotive boilers on its tracks, to what our insurance company's expect, I'm trying to get my head round it, I'm assuming the firebox end tubes are rolled then welded is that where the problem lies, as in this country, we prefer to expand then roll to ensure a watertight seal, and then they are welded, but only at the firebox end, did the german boilersmiths just weld them?
     
  7. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    It’s down to the boiler inspector not the TOC and for what’s been disclosed the current state of the boiler is below the standard required
     
  8. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Why not if "modern" designed things such as SWR 701's or B737 Max have issues then why should not "old" technology suffer the same fate?
     
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  9. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    It beggars belief that these problems only came to light after the boiler had been carted from Germany to Britain. Surely the A1 Trust’s boiler inspection outfit would have sent a surveyor to to the overhauler a few times during the overhaul?
    It can be surmised from comments on this thread that there is more than one issue in question. There could have been opportunities to correct problems and set standards.
     
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  10. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    We simply don't know the full facts..until we do it's pure speculation.
     
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  11. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. But it doesn’t look good for someone!
     
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  12. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    From reading comments elsewhere, it appears they didn't send anyone to inspect it or keep an eye on proceedings while it was being overhauled or tested. Certainly not the previous boiler inspector who made several visits to Germany when the boiler was originally built. You'd think after all the problems they've had over the years they would've been more thorough.
     
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  13. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I bet that they will when the time comes to have theP2's boiler shipped, i would not be surprised if it comes over as a bare boiler ,completed, but minus tubes and the tube are inserted and done at Darlington that would make most sence if the boiler inspector is not happy with the standard of work.
     
  14. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    Originally yes. So presumably the procedures...EU .. (CE)....were acceptable.
    Again this is all speculative. I don't who placed the order..the charitable trust or the limited company..I assume the latter...so I suggest we all reserve our comments.
     
  15. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    You're not obviously informed of CE standards..
     
  16. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    Having read your post again, are you privy to the contract?
     
  17. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Wrong, look back at the A1 communication cord, and they visited many times, as per last rebuilds.
     
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  18. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    When I was involved with industrial boilers UK practice (BS2790) was to expand the tubes before welding them to the tube plate followed by a light re-rolling. German practice was to simply weld the tubes in place with no prior expanding. Other problems could be cracking of the tubes if they were expanded prior to welding which would result in leaks on hydraulic testing and the way some tube suppliers are marking the tubes to identify them which is frowned on in the UK. I’ve no idea if any of this is relevant to the problem but they are examples of how problems could easily arise.
     
  19. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    That was the point i was making, that ways of doing things, and accepted practice can differ between countries, What might be perfectly acceptable in Germany, might not be here in the UK, One thing that possibly might be an issue is the spec of the material the tubes are drawn from, is it common across the industry, or does the UK, spec differ from what is used on the continent ? as the method of securing them differs also,
     
  20. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    There was a video doing the rounds of the boiler under hydraulic test in Germany where you could see water weeping down the tube plate. It has since mysteriously disappeared. It’s possible that further work was done subsequently, but that’s not what I hear.
     

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