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'Sensible' New Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by alexl102, Sep 12, 2022.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    House!

    Tom
     
  2. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    House?
     
  3. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Nobody’s mentioned Leader yet!
     
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  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    All NP tropes have been crossed off my bingo card, I was just waiting on the 2P being mentioned …

    Tom
     
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  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    You just did … :)

    Tom
     
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  6. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    What you had 'someone says new build 2P tank' on a bingo card? I suspect I'm the first to ever mention it that can't been something expected surely? As I said it not something thats popular.
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Do a search on this forum for “2P new build” - I get ten pages of search results …

    Tom
     
  8. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    The 2P used the same boiler s the 4F - G7S, the S standing for Superheated. I think the 2P cylinders were unique to that class and in typical Midland fashion, had the piston valves below the cylinder bores giving very restricted steam passages past them. There were two types: the Midland engines had 7' 0.5" wheels while the LMS engines had 6' 9" wheels; this change allowed smaller cylinders and eased the steam passages slightly.

    The 4Fs were mediocre steamers but there were no problems with the 2Ps. This was because the boiler could make more steam than could work its way past the cylinders so it could provide more than the cylinders could accept, not so with the 4F.
     
  9. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    Really. I was only being 10% serious as I was trying to think of sensible ideas
     
  10. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    Hang on i think there some confusion here I meant the 0-4-4T tank engine not the b#####d express 4-4-0.

    I don't even like the 4-4-0
     
  11. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Ahh, that makes more sense, although the term 2P is universally, if improperly, applied to the 4-4-0s.
     
  12. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    I did wonder what you and James were on about. I had visions of a poor top heavy 0-4-4T looking like it had eaten too many pies...
     
  13. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    That'd be the LBSCR D3x rebuilds (Marsh 1909 ... not one of his better ones!), Nos.396/7.
     
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  14. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    The Ivatt tanks (and their tender engine counterparts) have always impressed me in their ability to punch above their weight. Damned useful engines. I guess the Fowler, and particularly the Stanier 3MT Tanks were kept going simply to justify their expense, not being old locos.

    Richard.
     
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  15. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    Talking of the D3, would they be considered sensible? Shares parts with the E4s, fills a gap in the LBSCR story. Reasonably popular.
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I think this matter of Stanier's task on the LMS deserves some further discussion, though this may not be the right thread for it.

    Crewe was very well organised and produced cheap and cheerful locos that could be worked hard for short lives. Derby liked small locos, perfectly well designed in some respects but with a few silly weaknesses that could have been put right if only someone had had a more open mind. Horwich produced good robust locos, but seems to have been the poor relation in LMS design after Hughes' brief tenure. And what about St Rollox?

    Anyway the LMS needed an organiser to establish a new design school, preferably with good management skills, though that was perhaps less necessary in those days, when the boss's word was law, than might be looked for now. A right-hand man with a drawing office background, but not from one of the LMS's works, would surely have helped. Did they bring any such person in?
     
  17. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    No, they didn't. Herbert Chambers (Midland) was Stanier's first Personal Assistant (or whatever the title) but Tom Coleman (North Staffs) soon took on that role, and very successfully.
     
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  18. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    Yes - Tom Coleman, who came from Kerr Stuart's. It was Tom Coleman's design flair which was very much in evidence in the fine detailing of Stanier's locomotives.
    There's an excellent book on the life of Tom Coleman - LMS Locomotive Design & Development by Tim Hillier-Graves. Well worth a read.

    Edit - Jim beat me to it!

    Richard.
     
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  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I thought that too, but believe there's the same issue as the K, which is that all the drawings went missing many moons ago. :(
     
  20. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    ...

    I hope the drawing room staff who did this had a whole flock of birds s##t on him.

    But surely its not that critical how did beamish create the steam elephant casue those drawings can't have survived either...

    The P2 had to have certain re-engineering so new drawings must have been created too...
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022

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