West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Indeed, but....no such information was provided on the actual letter of which I received a copy originally, hence my comment

 

Yes, they were totally back of the envelope. I always think it is useful to look behind the headline figure to work out what they mean sometimes it is easier to visualise people on a platform than a money number - and of course if you just have passenger numbers and no income to work out what that means in terms of money.

The problem for me and here I think @jma1009 and @Matt37401 are right to point out the role of spin is the mixed messages coming out.

So we have the triumphant tone of the results but alternatively it was only £2000 profit in June when really June-July-Aug-Sept should be when you should be coining it especially considering all the months with no income.

The second point is that in June they budgeted for a LOSS of £110,120 (on the basis of fare income of £45,000) which takes us to our predicted annual loss of £1 million. But to come to that figure for June it appears to be based on the assumption of no income at all - which seems an odd set of assumptions to make.

So either the profit in June is no where near enough to cover the annual loss, it is sticking a finger in a leaking dam. In which case the railway is up **** creek.

Or the scale of the envisaged losses are greater than they actually will be and that the existential threat to the line is not as bad as is made out, and the 1 million figure is an exaggeration plucked out of the air.

The cynical might also wonder if the costs of HR consultants are included in those profit and loss figures.

The WSR reminds me of Del Boy and Uncle Albert in the market

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=289567632174929

 

I assumed that like most railways , supporters would be included in the people who it might be beneficial to be told, obviously a mistake on my behalf, every railway i was active on, when a statement was put out, it also went to supporters, who were on the mailing list, not all volunteers are active volunteers, , , given your recent correspondence, to myself and others are you now the official spokes person on here for the WSR ? because you do seem to have taken it on your self to act in that capacity if you are, I wish you well.

 

Another assumption of yours Martin!

Steve
wsr.org.uk

 

Fair comment. But then, I'm not quite sure who sent you the copy. Perhaps you could explain? PM if preferred

Steve
wsr.org.uk

 

I completely agree with this post. @Monkey Magic , @jma1009 etc now accuse the plc of spin. For heaven's sake. What about the letter is spin?
Firstly, jjp says thanks. Not spin.
Then acknowledges the fact that staff/volunteers have worked hard. Not spin.
Then he gives his personal opinion on the state of the line and stock. Not spin.
Then he gives some financial returns for June. He just says "they are encouraging". Not spin.
Then there is a final call to carry on the good work. Not spin.
Some people on this forum just look for problems and hand out criticism wherever they can. Maybe you just don't like being in a very small minority and that the vast majority of the railways supporters are actually out there doing positive things to support the railway. Not seeking to bring it down.
Ian Coleby

 

This is getting paranoid. You don't seem to understand what spin is and you have a bizarre idea about what is being suggested is being spun.

The PLC tells us about the financial black hole and spins it as impending doom for the WSR. Spun as donate or else - are you saying that this isn't a spin?

The PLC tells us the story of the income figures and spins it as success for the WSR. (Success compared to the predicted 6 figure loss (which itself seems to have been plucked out of the air), but compared to normal? compared to how other lines are doing in June? Is it a success by those criteria?)). Are you disputing that the 'success' is because it is being contrasted to the anticipated loss and that this is not a spin?

The PLC has put so many different 'spins' on the financial story that it is hard to trust what they say and how much is based in reality and how much of it is a slight of hand (statistical or accounting).

If the financial black hole is as big as the PLC tells us it is, then £2000 profit in June is not a success despite it being spun as such. If it is a success then the financial crisis is not as bad as it has been spun.

You seem to think that somehow the PLC should be showered with praise simply for putting out a statement. Well I suppose considering the standard of PLC communications it is an upgrade, but that doesn't mean that the content should not be questioned.

If the PLC had been much more open in the past then it would have a lot more credibility (and money) in the bank and people would be less sceptical. Why trust the PLC given their behaviour to the S&DRT, 10, local head teachers, MPs etc etc and the way they've spun their stories about those people. Maybe you need to look a little closer to home as to why people don't trust the PLC and their statements.

I must have missed the meeting when it was decided that supporting the instigation of disciplinary actions against other volunteers was a positive action. Do please tell me how the money spent on HR consultants has helped the line? Yes you are completely right, there is a small minority at the WSR who do seem very keen to bring down the line by wasting money on pointless punishment beatings. But yeah, it is absolutely all the fault of people on a discussion forum.

 

In amongst all this praise/bashing the WSR, there does appear to be 2 very separate West Somerset Railways at work.

Firstly, there is the day-to-day running of the WSR with full time staff and volunteers working together to present a much enjoyed product with families turning up for a pleasant trip, buying souvenirs and purchasing refreshments. I guess we do not hear much about this as it works well as timetabled and the families who travel go home happy from their day out. The locomotives and rolling stock are well turned out and all the work behind the scenes means a very attractive railway to travel upon. Long may it continue that way.

Secondly, the weird structure of the WSR leads to much internal strife and continuous criticism from outsiders. This is a sad state of affairs for any railway to find itself in. I do not know the best way forward any more than practically everyone on NP but that does not stop the speculation or "advice" given. How much of this affects the volunteers it is hard to judge and I do not know if any of it is known to the general travelling public (I assume not), however I wish I could knock a few heads together and urge some common sense into the decision making process.

Some further comments:

I DO want the WSR to survive and thrive.
I DO want the structure to be sorted out, even if only so that the WSR can claim Gift Aid and thus increase its income.
I DO think that the staff on the ground and the volunteers do a fantastic job and deserve the praise given.
I DO find it very sad that some people continuously "bash" the railway as I wonder whether we have reached a limit on what is acceptable.
I DO wish that the Company would work harder on its communications.
I DO think that the WSR could try more special events to bring in more customers.

I should add that I, like many on NP, do not understand some/much of the decision making of the current Company board but do think that they could still help themselves and the railway by being more open and honest about their methodology.

I have enjoyed many trips along the line in the past and hope that, health improving, I can get down there again in the future. I hope the railway survives and thrives and that the volunteers in particular get more recognition for keeping the line looking so good.

Sorry for a long post but I just felt the desire to put all my feelings down in writing.

Ed Chap

 

Don't you always lecture people about not playing the person... I think there is a word for your last post. I note that you haven't actually responded to the substance of it at all.

You don't seem to have understood my point or @jma1009's point. You seem to think I am saying that the nice words for volunteers are spin. I am not. The nice words for volunteers are good but the important stuff in the message - the financial information is heavily spun. It is paranoid to take this as evidence of an agenda against the WSR.

But you are correct for once. I do have an agenda. My agenda is that I want the WSR to survive and my concern is whether it is making enough now to survive the winter. If I wanted the WSR to fail I would sit on the sidelines and let those in power get on with it.

I am not quite sure why the PLC giving one statement which is slightly more transparent than usual means that its content should be given a free pass.

I'll explain my point again.

The PLC sends out mixed messages that are confusing about the financial state - the spinning of those messages (either very good or very bad) makes it harder to tell what the financial situation actually is.

If the PLC is not spinning the financial situation then the line is in real trouble and then £2524 profit is not enough. To call it a success is spin.

I don't think it does represent success. It needed to be more. It concerns me precisely because of the financial hole the PLC tells us the line is in. If people want the WSR to survive then I think the railway needs a bigger average daily profit in June than £84.13.

 

So, you want the WSR to survive, and you are not sitting on the sidelines. Apart from posting here, what are you doing to help the WSR survive?

 

Without wishing to seem rude but that is kind of my business. The survival of the WSR depends on a lot more than how one person chooses to help the line.

 

Well, almost a year ago, a group of souls proposed a different way forward for the WSR based on co-operation, sense and respect.

Our reward was to be vilified, lied about and worse.

Those who decided that the path we suggested was not the one to follow bear the responsibility for the current and future position of the Railway.

The proof of the pudding…

 

I know this question was not directed at myself, but feel my answer might be of some use in understanding the motivations of some people in this - which move beyond the pitched positions some people have obviously adopted within WSR, and which have spilled on to NP.

For myself, I have been reticent to post much more than what I hope is reasoned analysis - especially given the pitched battle that seems to be being engaged in by others. Aside from visits to WSR some time ago (for mutual training and then peer support between managers) my only real investment in WSR is one of affection for a line that had (and still has) much potential. However, I live too far away to do much more than be a distant supporter at the moment - especially having moved jobs during the last year to one that demands even more time and attention.

However, last year my circumstances were somewhat different, and I wrote to offer any (unpaid) support I could (I have experience of financial turnaround and restructuring of a number of heritage and charitable organisations, experience of working with volunteers, and have volunteered and worked for two heritage railways in the past - also assisting another couple of railways when they encountered some issues with lack of processes sufficient to satisfy HMRI/ORR). As someone without background on WSR, but with some experience that might have been relevant I thought the offer might have been useful - fresh blood with some potentially transferable skills. Having written I heard nothing - so I ventured to phone the railway, and was told that if my experience were to prove useful at any point in the future I would be contacted. I have heard nothing.

To me, this does not provide much emotional heartache - I don't have much invested - but I was willing to invest, and have devoted my energies elsewhere.
However, I remain confused by the messages coming out from WSR - and am puzzled as to how much in difficulty it is in (or is not) as the messages and information available do not seem consistent. So I am left thinking that I have saved myself a lot of work (and emotion) - and (whilst acknowledging that my own financial contribution would not change the course of the railway) I am reticent to donate what money I could given that I am not sure what the situation is, and my previous offer of practical support led to no response.

 

Are you really suggesting that everyone who might be able to "provide meaningful support, physical or financial" are such snowflakes that they are being put off by criticism of the railway's management on NP? Is it not more likely that they are being put off by the treatment of the "10" by that very management? I would think twice about volunteering for an organisation that gives out the message "We'd like your help, but only if you do what you're told and don't have any ideas of your own when it comes to management matters".

 

I see a number of posts here from people saying they don't want the WSR to fail, but they never seem to want to do anything to stop this failure. I was simply asking the question to try to understand a little more behind their reasoning. I'm sorry if my post makes it seem like I have a bad attitude.

 

Really... Thats not quite how I remember your approach....
Ian C

 

Is it time to put a stop to this endless he said, she said, game of tennis by shutting down this thread, As i see it, the only thing those who post in support of the WSR management have in common is an abject loathing of anyone who does not share their love, for instance, Ian C, vs Robin, (I suspect its personal scores being settled etc ) Yet both were actively working together in ousting the WSRA 6, but now it seems to be forgotten, this is the sad fact of how toxic the WSR has become,