West Somerset Railway General Discussion

That's horses for courses; my own view of going from M5 to Williton is strongly biased against the A39, but YMMV applies! What you miss the significance of in my post are the additional journey time - these timings are on top of whatever journey has already been made - and the ease of parking. Because what's being said is not "it's another x minutes drive" but "it's another x minutes drive, plus there's no dedicated free parking".

Now, do those factors mean that it's not worth using the line south of Williton? I don't know where the balance is, but I'd need a lot of convincing that the savings from not running that section would compensate for income foregone from both lower total fares income and reduced demand through being less accessible.

 

Rename Bishops Lydeard as Minehead Parkway and you will see where the main traffic flows are.

 

There are a couple more factors to be considered in any plan to reinstate the Watchet loop. Firstly, the east end of the loop was adjacent to Splash Point and the crumbly cliffs. Secondly, the west end of the loop was part way along the platform, necessary because of the position of the goods shed (now boat museum). If a train were to be held in the platform during run-round, the train will block Goviers Crossing if longer than about 4 coaches.

I agree that many customers may be willing to drive the extra 10 miles from Bishops Lydeard to Williton before starting their train journey. But the WSR would need to create an adequate car park for them. Williton currently has very limited parking, buffet and toilet facilities.

While a number of options have been identified for a shortened WSR, less costly to maintain, all these options have significant drawbacks. My gut feeling is that if the WSR ran only half their current line, they would lose more than half of their customers. They could charge a higher "rate per mile" on a shorter line, which may or may not help to balance the books. But a shortened line is certainly not a panacea. They could perhaps make greater use of DMUs (including Pacers?) to cover off-peak and low-season services. That will lose some customers who require a steam train, but enable significant cost savings.

 

Unless you are staying in Minehead I would suggest parking and good toilets at station of departure is a no 1 concern for visitors, certainly is for us

 

I first rode the WSR during the 70s when it was open from Minehead as far as Stugumber. At the time I was considering buying my first house in my early 20s in that Village as prices were dirt cheap compared to Sussex. I was the only passenger from Williton and distinctly remember as the Park Royal DMMU ground around overgrown curves and pushed through trees wondering where all the passengers were to come from even when it was reopened to some place in the middle of a field called BL. Have always considered the line to be too long for its potential customer base and therefore doomed to hit the rocks when the ex BR infrastructure reached end of life even even though this has been much delayed operating as 25 mph light railway. The decision to upgrade the route availability was just deluded madness and yes I did write to a couple of chairmen as a shareholder by then expressing my concerns.
Once Peter Revitt retired all sense flew out of the window.
What to do ? Close BL to Williton operate off peak diesels with peak steam, use the best track from BL to Williton section to keep the remainder operational, ban anything bigger than was allowed under BR so no 47s, Halls, Pacific’s etc and get some 153s dmus when they come up for withdrawal.

Brian

 

I well recall the DMMU service. During the first season I knew the line, services ran only between MD & BA, the stock looking very well in the wine & cream* "house livery" of the period and I don't recall any adverse comment due to steam locos, other than Victor and Vulcan, then still being very obviously restoration jobs (the 7F was displayed in the bay platform, chimney covered 'in tbe approved manner'). With restrictions on steam operations, due to conditions of (by British standards) severe drought, we happy punters were glad of any journey and I've fond memories of the panoramc views from those 1st gen DMMU workhorses.

Perhaps the answer lies in not treating two disparate markets as needing the same provision? Certainly, the WHR has been operating as two virtually separate railway, albeit for reasons associated with the damned lurgi. Is the MD/BA/WT holidaymaker market compatible with the drive-in WN/BL day visitor market? If not, recognising that in appropriate timetabling may come closer to producing an optimal balance, perhaps leaving fulline operations to such as dining services and charters, where the longer journey time is actually advantageous.



*not having a clue as to the official desctiption, that's mine.

 

Fundraising would be more successful if (a) the likes of us here had some confidence in the railway's viability and the management's ability to spend money wisely and (b) the Bailey proposals (or some other rationalisation of the structure) had been implemented to eliminate the complexity that we have been told discourages grand-awarding bodies.

 

NYMR originally focused on getting to Whitby to provide a destination. Some people opposed the Whitby extension on the grounds that it would cost more and that shorter journeys were what was needed. They were entirely wrong and the extension has been a tremendous success. What they found at Whitby was that a significant traffic in bound from Whitby towards the moors, particularly Goathland. On Gala weekends the first train from Whitby can have 350 passengers. The timetable provides for short inbound days out as well as a long day at the seaside. The NYMR has a highly successful dining train which brings in significant sums. How is it that the QB can manage to run at a loss? Every revenue stream needs to maximised.

WSR needs to run all line trains, cutting it short will be a false economy. Building a loop at Watchet is a waste of money. Having a flexible timetable that suits the traffic flows is essential. Minehead is the prize destination, it's the seaside and gateway to Exmoor. There will be a side market inbound to Dunster and Watchet but Minehead sells the railway. There also needs to be a focus on what brings families to the railway, special events, childrens stories, entertainment etc. My last visit left me with the impression that the railway was somewhat of an old man's play thing. The better days and events seemed to be behind it somehow. It's a pity because so many volunteer their precious time and commit themselves to keeping it going.

It's a wonderful line with stunning views along the coast and there is potential to develop it further with themed events and journey suggestions. An intermediate station could be developed as a family attraction for picnics and walks etc, thus creating an incentive for new people to travel. New markets are there to be developed.
Every preserved railway must build on success and constantly change whilst remaining true to the central idea of steam traction. There is plenty to sell at the WSR. Ultimately it is about getting people to enjoy their visit so that they come back for more.

 

Personally I think you need the line the length it is. BL is easy to get to from Taunton, the M5, etc., and has parking. Anywhere further along the line is a longer journey on smaller roads and off-putting for non-enthusiast paying public. The other end is the seaside. The destination. It's a shame you can't move the two a bit closer together, but I think you need the end points you have already.

 

The majority of WSR passengers arrive from the east, and Bishops Lydeard is the only station that has adequate car parking and other facilities to receive them. Most wish to go the full distance to Minehead, either for a day out there or just for a train ride and to enjoy the scenery. In high season, when there are large numbers of holiday-makers staying in Minehead, there is a significant secondary flow from the Minehead end, but with many only going as far as Watchet. As you say, the timetable needs to reflect the passenger flows as best it can.

You outline a number of potentially good ideas for the WSR to grow its business. When the infernal pandemic subsides, there will be much scope for a skilled commercial manager to develop ideas such as these, perhaps aiming to rebuild the WSR passenger numbers to the 200K-plus levels that it last enjoyed in the years 2005-11. But the WSR commercial manager was, I believe, made redundant as surplus to requirements.

During the week, I enjoyed an out and back trip on the WSR from Bishops Lydeard to Blue Anchor. The train was clean and comfortable, the scenery was as excellent as always, and the WSR volunteers/staff were efficient and helpful, as they always are. As others have observed, there is a strange disconnect on the WSR between the good work on the ground and the problems at the top.

 

You are still looking at the journey as time wasted getting to your destination and not part of the day out.
Parking, I agree, could be a problem, but not an insuperable one. A rationalisation and tidy up of Sherrings' Yard could provide much additional space.

 

If you use Sherrings Yard as a carpark, what impact would that have on the restoration business, how would passengers traverse from there car to the station, what would Highways think of the access to Sherrings Yard and the industrial estate for a significant number of vehicles? Turning Williton into the new starting location creates more issues than solutions for the WSR. And if you've travelled half way to Minehead from the M5, you might aswell just drive the rest of the way.

Also, I would suggest that people using google maps times as a means of justification to mothball the railway at Bishops Lydeard should jump in there car and drive the road at the same times the peak WSR trains ,operated pre covid, and report back how long it took them.

 

I am looking at the journey as wasted time, because I know I’m in a 3:1 minority chez 35B when it comes to considering travel time part of the day out. I suspect those odds are relatively favourable compared to the population at large, especially when children (“are we there yet”) are factored in.


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I'm not convinced that the Whitby extension of the the NYMR has proved to be a tremendous success. Yes, the number of visitors has increased but then so have costs. In many ways I get the impression of a railway that is having to run a lot harder to stand still. From the perspective of an enthusiast there are some very definite disadvantages there is a lot less work for locomotives and carriages (particularly pre-BR carriages) that cannot be registered to run to Whitby) because fewer services run confined to the the Pickering-Grosmont section of the line.Fine if all that interests you is the mostly Black 5/Standard 4 + Mk1s line up but that is what it is moving largely towards.

 

I recall there was a bit of a fanfare announcement - I guess some years ago now - about getting the teaks mainline certified just for Whitby. Has that been totally abandoned, just on the backburner, still happening in the background but slow progress?...

 

I share your concerns about the consequences of the Whitby opening, though consider it a downside of success rather than a problem in it's own right.

However, the situation on the NYMR is different to that in west Somerset. For the past few decades, the WSR has run on the basis of providing a service over the Minehead branch; we are talking here about the consequences of curtailing that operation in the short or long term. Those consequences would be significant, and I have yet to see any clear argument that reducing the length of the line by half would dramatically change the profitability of the operation - especially as it would leave the coastally exposed stretches running and forfeit the inland sections. As cutbacks tend to beget cutbacks, even if the numbers did stack up, I would be concerned about the long term impact of such a decision both in terms of the railway's business culture, and on the pain caused to volunteers deeply emotionally invested in the line.

As ever on the WSR, I see the remedy for the current problems lying not in the quick fix of surgery, but in the long slow graft of fund raising and organisational healing.

 

There was a time when it seemed that the ORR were prepared to accept the principle that actually running at 25mph from Gromont to Whitby was no different to running over the NYMR at 25mph, but for some reason they changed their minds.

The NYMR's experience with Whitby really only goes to show that you should be careful what you wish for, as once in you are trapped - the NYMR will never revert to Grosmont- Pickering now.. If the WSR ever truncates its line "as a short term measure" I suspect it will take a very long time to recover to its full length. However, as I keep saying, it is only over the past few years that its passenger numbers have fallen away, at a time when most others have held their own or increased their numbers. Identify the underlying reasons for that trend and addressing them would go a long way to addressing the hole in the finances.

 

Whilst I agree with much that has been said here, the problem is any looking into underlying trends will to the present management be an admission of we got it wrong, And they would never do it, It will be for the next board of the WSR PLC to investigate what went wrong, and why, and what it can do to rectify the situation, But by then, its very likily that the situation will have already spiralled out of control, resulting in a situation, very like that which befell the Llangollen , new board take over, but are left with only one course of action, whilst those who did the damage just move on elsewhere, leaving the real supporters to try to save what they can.

 

As Winston Churchill said of civil servants, "to every solution, a problem". The idea that there is a problem-free solution to the WSR's ills out there which no-one has yet realised is simply absurd. Any plan of action will have its drawbacks. It has to be realised that doing nothing and just carrying on without change has serious drawbacks as well.

 

Is that still a problem, in these days of screens?