Strategic Reserve

the idea stems from the electro-magnetic pulse (EMP) which is produced by any fission reaction. it wipes the silicon chip within a system, which these days is every system, rendering any circuit board less than 40 years old useless. it is certainly true that it would also destroy the modern signalling network, the modern telecoms network (just as vital as signalling), and any other system required to run a railway (along with ETRMS and all the other boxes main line engines are fitted with). circuits can be protected from EMP, but the possibility is so remote these days its not worth doing.

if anyone is interested in the real reprecussions of a nuclear strike, there is a book out at the moment called something like a homeowners guide to protecting your house, which is all about how to survive a first strike. apparently those in terraced houses are best off, and those in bungalows are screwed

 

ah but in an rmergency you could run the railway without technology...points can be set by hand and trains (such few as there would be) run by basic hand signalling. It would be hard however to recruit crews as most enthusiasts would be at the trackside taking photos on their box brownies...

 

Best bit of news I've had all day - we live in a terrace house :smt003

Anyway, if the major population centres are hit by a hydrogen bomb there will be a big hole blown in the main line capable loco pool. For instance, an attack on the centre of London would knock out Clan Line, Tangmere (plus anything else at Southall), irradiate everything within a radius stretching out to Bighton in the south. That means the Bluebell being taken out but perhaps the Mid-Hants would survive. If Birmingham was hit then the SVR could be irradiated and damaged. Similarly, an attack on Liverpool or Manchester would bring Carnforth into the fallout zone.

Any attack on Newcastle and the major north east England conurbations would result in fallout on the NYMR, then you have attacks on the east of England to knock out the main RAF bases, which would result in the MNR, NNR and NVR being affected. If the major Royal Navy bases are attacked then the Mid-Hants would be in the fallout zone as would the P&DR.

Just to underline the point - Mutually Assured Destruction doesn't have the accronym MAD for nothing. But that is the game of bluff that is nuclear deterrent.

Regards,

Dan

 

MNR affected ? Would that be a great loss ? Would anyone notice ? only kidding.

Back in 1968 how much of this "knowledge" of EMP existed, and was thought to be a realistic probability ? Additionally how much of the network was mechanical ? In that sense a strategic reserve would probably make sense. However in reality the UK has never been much of a country for "long term" effects planning and the cash to be made on scrap metal was more than the accountants could consider over storing hundreds of steam locomotives.

To me, any country but the UK I could believe a strategic reserve, but one in the UK ? No... we revolve around money too much to pay for the "what if" scenario... it's easier to say "well who would have thought of that" when it actually happens.. consider the floods of 2007 as an example.

 

I see where you're coming from Dan, BUT... the amount of radiation would be determined by the size of warhead and whether the detonation was a ground or air burst. Drop an average warhead on a city centre and a 3 mile radius would be completely demoloished and a radioactive cloud would rise, spread and fall back to earth. With an airburst the same yield would destoy a 5 mile radius but little fallout as the only irradiated item would be the metal casing of the bomb.
Or at least that's what I was taught.

The use of a start res though isn't dependant only on nuclear war. Imagine an ynfriendly mid east country mined and/or blocked the straight of Hormuz whilst Cuban backed terrorists inflicted major damage on Mexico's Yucatan province. An East Euro county then uses a sub to destroy pipelines from our North Sea oil rigs. Hey ho; Britain's oil supplies are slashd. To operate a railway we'd be resticted to electric and steam.

 

I know it seems odd to say. But if WW3 deos come, its more than likely going to wipe the modern countries out. At the very least, railways are going to be the last thing on our mind post-nuke!!!!

 

all the local railways affected would also depend on the weather. if there was heavy rain that would reduce the time fall-out would be an issue, while the direction of the wind (predominantly heading NE) would alter the area the fall out landed in. an air burst over newcastle would spread the material onto the north sea, while an air burst over london would irradiate essex and suffolk. This is why most nuclear powerstations are located upwind of areas devoid of habitation (the one on anglesey has the irish sea, sellafield has the lakes and the cheviots, doonray has the arctic ocean), so that any released material kills as few people as possible. coincidentally, the french have the majority of their numerous powerstations located along the northern coast, so that any material would land on us...

 

Ahem... have a look at any wind-blown tree round these parts and you'll realise that the prevailing winds around Wylfa ("the one on Anglesey") come off the Irish Sea and blow across NW Wales, parts of NW England and the Midlands. But the power station also generates a very useful Welsh Highland volunteer team, so at least there is balance, of a kind... ;-)

 

I remember the rumours around in the Seventies when the supposed strat reserve was held in Caverns in North Wales - I guess the myth being driven by the Evac of the artworks there in the last war!

To think that any Government from the seventies onwards would consider the viabililty of Strat reserve for the railways is nonsensical - A government that would give us Cruise, Menwith hill,Trident, yet give away ALL the strategic necessities like Power. Coal, Gas and Water. leave alone Rail!!! to the profit orientated Private sector, is'nt going to squirrel away something it could turn into money??????

For gods sake, we dont even have a Navy that can guarantee the sea lanes for an island nation!!!

Post nuclear confrontation planning never allowed for a viable survivng rail network, all major nodes were targetted for heavy conventional treatment before nuclear exchange, and beyond that local cluster survival and recovery would be the priority. only in the fevered imagination of the deluded,would a"national" network be possible

Lets concentrate on keeping what we have now, running, working, and improving.......Privatisation has been far more effective at disabling the railways than conventional or Nuclear warfare could ever manage!!!

 

Day of the Trainspotters.....

 

Still a poor second to Dr Beeching!

 

Beeching - The ultimate First strike Weapon!!!!

 

I was told by a MSP a few years ago that a reserve existed in Glen Douglas on the West Highland line where there were Standard 4s, 5s and WD 2-8-0s. I'm not sure if I was being wound up and treated it with the sceptisism that it deserved. The MSP said that there were about 70 - 80 locomotives present and in pristine condition.

 

I am sure many people in 'authority' know about this rumour and take a little harmless pleasure in gently winding up people who they may see as gullible train-spotters with nods winks and opaque mentions of the Official Secrets Act whenever the subject is raised.

If you believe this MSP was telling the truth perhaps you should report him to the Police for leaking sensitive security information. They seem to have developed a taste for arresting polititions recently.

 

I don't for a moment believe there was a UK strategic reserve, but surely its going a bit far to make out that it's lunacy to even ask about one?

As it happens, we know the answer, we know what happened to the vast majority of scrapped locos, so there isn't really a possibility - no-one would want the assortment of the small numbers not properly accounted for. Even had one been created (which it wasn't ) it would be useless now, and would have been for many years, so no doubt would have been sold off one way or another.

But after all, other European countries _did_ set up strategic reserves, although until seeing that video I'd assumed they were all disbanded long ago. And the MOD did maintain a few steam locos into the late 70's / early 80's against 'contingencies' . (All J94's , I think?) There was certainly one at Shoeburyness at that time, though it was hardly 'secret'.

If such a thing had been decided on, surely it would have consisted of Austerities, both large and small? After all, they were built to MOD spec and deliberately designed to be simple to maintain with limited resources.

 

There is a strategic reserve in the UK - I have seen it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is an unrebuilt Patriot, a clan, a county, a grange, a V2 and 6 Duchesses.

Anyone who would like to know their whereabouts should send me a plain brown envellope with £100 in it and all will be revealed!!

 

I've my money ready , can you just PM me the address =D>

 

Let me guess .............. they are all 00 gauge?

 

is there a decent website that lists what was scrapped,where & when ?
Or a book ?

If it existed it would be a major historical resource !

What was the last ex-BR steam locomotive scrapped (except Woodhams of the SVR pannier ?) - I.e. who had what left after 1968 in their yard awaiting the torch ?