(RTC) The Christmas White Rose - 14/12/19

LMarsh1987 · 2019-12-13

作者 5944: ↑

Still no paths in RTT for light engine moves at King's Cross, so doesn't look like it will be a solo trip.
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As said in a previous post and from experience, the LE paths don't always show at KGX. Would like to see both york tours tomorrow but not if there both rear gunned !

5944 · 2019-12-13

作者 LMarsh1987: ↑

As said in a previous post and from experience, the LE paths don't always show at KGX.
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But that was when there was a siding outside Gasworks Tunnel, so the loco didn't really leave KGX. There's no siding now, so the loco will have to go light to Ferme Park or Southall.

alts1985 · 2019-12-13

Lincoln tour on the 8th did not have a diesel on the rear.

peckett · 2019-12-14

作者 alts1985: ↑

Lincoln tour on the 8th did not have a diesel on the rear.
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Started out of Ealing Broadway tho'.didn't touch KX.

5944 · 2019-12-14

60163 with a 47 on the rear of the stock sat in Ferme Park when I passed about an hour ago.

dublo6231 · 2019-12-14

Confirmed diesel on rear departing Stevenage.

Davo · 2019-12-14

Tailgunner on for carriage heating maybe?

Big Al · 2019-12-14

作者 Davo: ↑

Tailgunner on for carriage heating maybe?
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Correct. No assistance though according to driver. Even time from Stevenage to Holme. Nice.

Dan Hill · 2019-12-14

We are currently just outside York 20+ mins early. Brilliant run from the Bebworth Loop water stop. According to the tannoy announcement on the train we may have been helped by a late running service.

and60007 · 2019-12-14

My Latest footage, enjoy

Big Al · 2019-12-14

作者 Dan Hill: ↑

We are currently just outside York 20+ mins early. Brilliant run from the Bebworth Loop water stop.
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That was another even time run.

and60007 · 2019-12-14

作者 Big Al: ↑

That was another even time run.
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A very good run then by a brilliant loco.

Big Al · 2019-12-14

Arrived back at KGX after a decent return run. Plenty of time in loops but kept more or less to time.

Thanks to the A1ST for retrieving the day by turning out Tornado for both legs.

Dan Hill · 2019-12-15

Just got home from a long but most certainly worth while day. Tornado performed brilliantly and just seemed to cruise when not restricted to the loops. Thanks must go to the A1 Trust for allowing Tornado to haul the return leg of what is possibly the best railtour I've been on.

Managed to see 7029 for the first time as well whilst in the NRM and in the platform at York while I waited for our ECS to come back in on the platform she vacated just prior. Sadly didn't get a decent picture of her though.

Bulleid Pacific · 2019-12-15

A rather good day out, with a good dose of 70+mph running, and pleased we were able to keep moving at Stoke Jn on the outward, rather than stop. 60163 simply purrs along at speed. Thanks to everyone involved, and the A1 people for allowing it to stand-in for 60009 on the return leg.

jackshepherd · 2019-12-15

Tornado seen speeding through Hadley Wood with the return Christmas White Rose, a wicked sight.

FlyingScotsman4472 · 2019-12-15

Fabulous sight through Newark Northgate Station

Big Al · 2019-12-15

Can I just add a postscript about this trip and raise a matter that is an issue for a minority of us mainly because of the inconsistency with which the practice is applied, especially when West Coast crews are involved. I'm talking about our friend at the rear. It was obvious that the shunting at York required a diesel to accompany the train and given the time of year it was also helpful to have a warm train without steam heat providing a sauna experience and poor window visibility.

I asked Mick Rawling at King's Cross what instruction he had given to the diesel driver and he said words to the effect that the diesel was to be in neutral and the crew on board should enjoy the ride. Clearly there was a confidence up front that Tornado was up for the task and the fact that it was only a load of 11 (plus the Class 47) brought the total of 540 tons within the scope of the loco. We may have been helped to get into Gasworks Tunnel but after that all the starts and hills suggested what was happening was all down to the A1. Coming home, Jim Clarke was in charge of the diesel until he took over from David Blair on Tornado at Peterborough. He gave the same message before we set off from York.

So what we had was a combination of a manageable load for the loco and a consistent approach from all those involved. It's often a lottery with West Coast as for whatever reason either the footplate crew ask for help when you could arguably question why, or the man at the back decides to give it anyway. And then there is the overloading issue when a diesel is in place. So many thanks, once again, to all at West Coast who were involved in yesterday's decisions. I think it shows that provided you match Class of loco with train length/weight (to include a diesel where necessary) in the planning then everyone is happy although, of course, that has to be reflected in the pricing.

Enterprise · 2019-12-15

作者 Big Al: ↑

I think it shows that provided you match Class of loco with train length/weight (to include a diesel where necessary) in the planning then everyone is happy although, of course, that has to be reflected in the pricing.
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No. Possibly most people might be happy.

Kylchap · 2019-12-15

作者 Big Al: ↑

Can I just add a postscript about this trip and raise a matter that is an issue for a minority of us mainly because of the inconsistency with which the practice is applied, especially when West Coast crews are involved. I'm talking about our friend at the rear. It was obvious that the shunting at York required a diesel to accompany the train and given the time of year it was also helpful to have a warm train without steam heat providing a sauna experience and poor window visibility.

I asked Mick Rawling at King's Cross what instruction he had given to the diesel driver and he said words to the effect that the diesel was to be in neutral and the crew on board should enjoy the ride. Clearly there was a confidence up front that Tornado was up for the task and the fact that it was only a load of 11 (plus the Class 47) brought the total of 540 tons within the scope of the loco. We may have been helped to get into Gasworks Tunnel but after that all the starts and hills suggested what was happening was all down to the A1. Coming home, Jim Clarke was in charge of the diesel until he took over from David Blair on Tornado at Peterborough. He gave the same message before we set off at York.

So what we had was a combination of a manageable load for the loco and a consistent approach from all those involved. It's often a lottery with West Coast as for whatever reason either the footplate crew ask for help when you could arguably question why, or the man at the back decides to give it anyway. And then there is the overloading issue when a diesel is in place. So many thanks, once again, to all at West Coast who were involved in yesterday's decisions. I think it shows that provided you match Class of loco with train length/weight (to include a diesel where necessary) in the planning then everyone is happy although, of course, that has to be reflected in the pricing.
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A very reasonable and balanced viewpoint from @Big Al. Thank you.

I found this tour very attractive, even when the onward leg to Newcastle behind 60009 was withdrawn. However, I decided not to book because ECML, WCRC, Christmas trip added up to a high probability of a diesel on the rear - at least in my perception. On this occasion people with views like mine didn't matter because the train was fully booked, but that is not always the case.

I accept that there are valid reasons for attaching a diesel - there always are and they get trotted out regularly* - but unless there is greater clarity I won't book.

* Just as an aside, I'm not convinced by the "steam heating" argument. Locomotive boilers produce an awful lot of hot steam. How can it be more effective to haul along a 100 ton diesel to provide heat? Unless, of course, it's "just taking it's own weight".

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(RTC) The Christmas White Rose - 14/12/19

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(RTC) The Christmas White Rose - 14/12/19

LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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peckett Member

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Davo Well-Known Member

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and60007 Member

Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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Dan Hill Part of the furniture

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