Edward Thompson: Wartime C.M.E. Discussion

I did wonder about the SR-allocated Panniers after hitting post, but I suspect @Jamessquared has it.

 

Would not argue with that.

 

The debate is drifting.

Question was if Gresley was a gift to LNER shareholders or not.

His main claim to fame and honour :

Conjugation patented by Gresley on locomotives jobs that on other UK railways were mostly two cylindered .
Swinglink ponytrucks patented by same applied to three-cylinder locomotives with conjugation
Ordering a test train with innocents aboard to speed very close to something really ugly.

I admire Thompson for trying to bring economy in LNER locomotive stable and not resigning due to age .

 

Don't forget the London Transport panniers....

 

Now you're just trolling.
The test team members were told about the record attempt prior to the commencement of the southbound run and were given the chance to leave the train. To a man they volunteered to stay at their posts so they were fully aware of what was about to happen and the possible consequences.

 

I suspect the last Gresley-era LNER steam engines operated by British Rail outlasted the LT panniers - they were withdrawn from BR service in 1981.

 

Steam cranes?

 

Paddle steamers!

 

Ah. Did HNG have any design input?

 

Off the top of my head I have no idea, which is why I was careful to specify "Gresley-era"

 

Was the high speed run a millitary thing ,upholding British honour against the evil empire?
I have had my fair share of spoiled ,rich kids as bosses and is just trying to evaluate whose engineering was best Gresley or Thompson.
The Jury is still out.

 

I feel I must tell you that life is passing you by. Post#2658 and then........ the whole of the minutes of the LNER Board..........over 4 weeks?? You were reading LNER old minutes for 4 weeks?
Then I see your ' forum signature'.......apart from blatant advertising (I thought there was a forum rule about that), you say you're writing a book. Can you tell us when this book is due for publication............or are the contents all here in this thread? Because the thread is heading for another 'War and Peace' epic.........just like the WSR thread.

 

It was relevant to my writing and had to be done. I have gained a lot of knowledge and evidence, for and against Thompson's decision making. All people who write good books will do good research. Nothing to be gained by not looking for information.

I've had no complaints about my signature in the nine years I have been on here. If there's any issues, the Mods are welcome to let me know and I'll happily amend.

Quite a lot of the book's contents have been discussed in various ways, but the point of making the book is to put it all in one place.

And, the offer I made before - any Nat Pres members who contributed to this thread can have a copy of the eBook, free of charge - still stands. As is also my offer to supply copies of the Cox report, and my bibliography.

Regarding publication - when it's done. Last summer I was going to publish in the October but that was before I saw the National Archives material. Now it's a case of going back through it and editing it to suit the new information, which happily is nearly done. I am intending to send out copies to friends and interested parties for checking purposes as soon as I can (but as you may appreciate, my apprenticeship with Network Rail and my exams, as always, comes first).

I am interested in the current line of discussion and have taken a step back to observe.

I think the comparison to the WSR thread is hilarious. Thank you for giving me the first best laugh of the day.

 

You need to do some research. Gresley had initiated a number of high speed trials in conjunction with the Westinghouse Company to test a quick acting brake valve. On one of these runs it was decided to have a crack at the UK steam record, then held by the LMS at 114 mph. Eventually it became a attempt at the world steam record. Nothing to do with the military, just a loco engineer and his team seeing just how fast their loco could go.

 

The Mallard high speed run is a weird thing to centre on, IMO, as it was a culmination of many different technologies including coach articulation, braking systems, and the development of the A4 and its streamlined casing too. There was a very careful - what we would call a safety case these days - put together, it was planned to the nth degree and I think we can all agree, proved successful in a number of ways.

The one thing which always strikes me is how overplayed the middle big end "failure" was. It ran hot, and they stopped the train. The train was then pulled to the end of the trip by an Atlantic, with Mallard still in the train. Remetalling - not exactly the most onerous of tasks for a fully equipped works - and Mallard was back at work in a very short space of time after the record attempt. 126mph appears to be the upper limit for the A4 Pacifics, it proved beyond reasonable doubt that they were capable of safely carrying out more exacting timetables.

The criticism of Gresley in this line of thinking isn't justified, IMO. Pre second world war conditions for the LNER were incredibly different, and Gresley was given the reigns to do good work.

 

Nah, everyone knows that record was held by the GWR, though getting within 10mph of Swindon’s mark was a sterling effort by HNG. Mallard now holds the honour of being the fastest British locomotive to have survived into preservation.

Tom (running for cover at 135mph ...)

 

Sorry but the record was held at 137 mph by a Merchant Navy in 1939. 21C01 "Cost A Packet".

 

Yeah but Thompson ruined them later.....

 

It is just speculation.
Locomotives not working flat out all the time can easily work 40 years.
That A1/a3 did ,does not prove that Gresley did an extraordinary job.
Some danish pacifics were active more than 50.
Pacifics were known before Gresley.
Gresley designed Pacifics needing conjugation.
Conjugation was not used by Bulleid or Peppercorn that both knew the system intimately.
Was it an Ego thing?