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Rother Valley Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by nine elms fan, Nov 4, 2012.

    Thanks for a glorious tea/screen interface moment. Although I was disappointed for it not to have included a capitalised ACTUALLY between the sixth and seventh words. :)

    (Hope you didn't hurt your foot when you stamped it ;-) )
     
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  1. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    Are there any thoughts about a signal box for Robertsbridge KESR?
    I recall that the little one at Hawkhurst was earmarked but was then lost. It wasn't much more than a shed, I felt.

    How about the SER (?) one by the level crossing? That has to come out soon, surely. I find the shape rather appealing, and it has a relationship with the site.

    RVR29.jpg

    It has a certain charm, doesn't it?

    07-12-30 041.jpg
     
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  2. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    plus not to far to remove it and rebuild it :) remove the top intact if it can or if not bit by bit then store it somewhere on RVR Station site, demolish the brick base, and rebuild it on site, I would imagine given the links between Network Rail and the RVR it would be given to the railway when it becomes redundant
     
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  3. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    Come to think of it, isn't it very similar to Tenterden signal box (ex Chilham) - three bays, one locking room window?
    I rather like the little annexe it has, and the balcony.

    Let's hope it can be arranged, I think it would be great.
     
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  4. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    I seem to recall that the plan for Hawkhurst box was to display it near the road, rather than use it to signal the station area. As far as I know it is not planned that Robertsbridge junction will actually be a signalled station. In the same way that Bodiam as the current terminus is unsignalled in true light railway fashion. If used to signal the station, any 'box would need to be at the end furthest from the stops and thus not as easily viewed. Will probably have ground frames to permit use of run-round and sidings (just as Bodiam currently has a g/f at the Headcorn end for r/r and another at the Robertsbridge end for access to sdgs)
     
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  5. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Part of the furniture

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    I was informed by RVR volunteer that the signal box at Robertsbridge was still there solely for the connection to and from the British Gypsum siding at Mountfield
     
  6. 5801

    5801 Member

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    Then he is sadly mistaken. The box controls the level crossings at Robertsbridge and Riverhall, and the single line section through Mountfield tunnel, as well as the Gypsum siding connection. It is not due to be replaced before 2020, and will probably last some time beyond then.
     
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  7. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Its now gone deathly silent about the public enquiry, nothing on local media about it, how long does the secretary of state have between ordering a public enquiry and it having to be carried out? we're now into October, and times marching on, but I guess with the current minister for transport being so inept( he can't even manage existing railway problems) So I suppose its been lost under the pile of "Urgent, for immediate action" problems in his IN tray.
     
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  8. b.oldford

    b.oldford Member

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    I think "Failing Grayling" is more concerned with the possibility of M20 and/or M26 lorry parks at the moment. o_O
     
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  9. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    Nah "Failing" was in Liverpool today putting out the BS on the Beeb re the reopening of Lime Street Stn. which was all a bit rich considering his less than Stella performance regarding how badly Northern has been performing.


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  10. John Baritone

    John Baritone New Member

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    When I visited the Kent & East Sussex recently, I was talking to a volunteer about Bodiam Station, and asked if it was going to become a passing point. He told me it was to be left unsignalled, as it was the only station left on the line which was, and which could be, left just as it was in Col. Stephens' days. In terms of preserving as much as possible of the heritage of the line, I could see his point. But then I started looking at running miles, timings, and extra features - and it doesn't add up.

    For starters, take a look at the map on this Wiki page, showing the line and route mileages:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rother_Valley_Railway

    I realise that there will be a slight deviation from the original route at one point, but I think the figures shown are near enough for reasonable estimates to be made. According to this map, the mileage from Northiam to Bodiam is about 3.5 miles, and from Bodiam to Robertsbridge Station, about the same. If Bodiam is left as an unsignalled station, that will roughly double the Down section length from Northiam.

    Now look at the timings on this year's full timetable:
    https://www.kesr.org.uk/phoca-downl...events-2018?download=252:k-esr-timetable-2018

    In the Red and Green Timetables, with two trains in service, the running time from a Down service departing Northiam - to Bodiam and back, and departing Northiam as an Up service - is 45 minutes; the minimum time between trains from Tenterden is then 1 hour and 5 minutes.

    In the Gold Timetable, with three trains in service, the running time for the same Northiam - Bodiam - Northiam run is also 45 minutes; but the minimum time between trains from Tenterden is down to 45 minutes. Even though there are three intermediate crossing points, for a single track line limited to 25 mph, with five level crossings, that's a pretty intensive service (and maybe even more so at special events).

    If trains run to Robertsbridge, with Bodiam left as it is, instead of a run of 3.5 miles, with a single station stop / run round at the end of it, it will become a 7 mile run, with one station stop, one station stop / run round, and three level crossings (Junction Road, Salehurst and Northbridge Street). I know that the published timetable doesn't show all the details in the working timetable, so it's hard to get an exact picture. Even so, I don't see any possibility of a train being able to do the Northiam - Robertsbridge -Northiam run in under an hour, even if all three crossings are either locally manned or remotely monitored and controlled. If my calculations are correct, it makes the current frequency of trains from Tenterden look extremely difficult to maintain on the Red and Green Timetables, and impossible on the Gold.

    If Bodiam is to be left as it is now, I can only see two options:
    1. Some Down services are turned round at either Northiam or Bodiam;
    2. An extra passing point - not necessarily with a station - is placed at an intermediate point between Bodiam and Robertsbridge, such as Junction Road.

    I don't have any strong feelings either way, so I'm looking at it as an outsider - and I'm certainly not in a position to know any more than Joe Public and his dog about how the extra line is to be worked. I assume that both Railways would have given this some thought, long before now, and I do realise that much information about future plans must be kept confidential until the right time. But, that said, can anyone with more direct knowledge shed any light on this matter?

    With best regards,

    John
     
  11. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    John

    I believe a loop is planned at Junction Road.

    Paul
     
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  12. John Baritone

    John Baritone New Member

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    @Paul42 - thank you for your reply. Am I correct in assuming that it will be a block post?

    With best regards,

    John
     
  13. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    I do not have any further info.

    Paul
     
  14. John Baritone

    John Baritone New Member

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    No problem, Paul - I'll await future news from RVR!
     
  15. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean ‘unsignalled’? Bodiam presently has a run-round loop and by its very nature this requires protection in the form of a signalling system. It’s ages since I was there but I presume the system has at least some kind of staff/token which locks the points. To be truly unsignalled you’d need to reduce it to a single line.


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  16. John Baritone

    John Baritone New Member

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    When I last visited the line (about a month ago), there were no signals at Bodiam - and a signalman told me that it would not be equipped with signals, even when the connection to Robertsbridge was up and running.

    "It’s ages since I was there but I presume the system has at least some kind of staff/token which locks the points."

    It is worked by a single-line staff, normally issued to the train crew by the Northiam signalman; this has a key on it, which is used by the train crew to release a ground frame at Bodiam so as to make the run-round move. Signals would only be required at Bodiam if it was a block post, which it it is not - and the signalman told me it will not become a block post.

    "To be truly unsignalled you’d need to reduce it to a single line."

    In effect, that's what the section from Northiam to Bodiam and back is; a single line worked by staff. The Irwell Vale section (Ramsbottom to Rawtenstall and back) on the East Lancs Railway is worked on exactly the same system, with the staff being issued to train crews by the signalman at Ramsbottom, and used by train crews to unlock the points for the run-round loop at Rawtenstall Station - so the sole purpose of the signals worked from Rawtenstall West Box is to protect the level crossing.

    HTH
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  17. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    Bodiam has a GF "A" released by the OTW staff to operate the points at the Headcorn/Tenterden end for a RR. There is a Stop board** at the Robertsbridge end of the platform which is the end of the passenger railway.

    There is also a GF "B" at the Robertsbridge end, beyond the handpoints used for RR, this GF works the siding points thus allowing vehicles to be "locked in" there. This GF has two spare levers which will no doubt eventually be used for the current handpoints.
    (If the points at this end were currently worked from the GF, it would make the RR move take longer. Present practice is for the driver to surrender the staff to the guard after the train has stopped in the platform. The guard can then go to GF 'A' and operate the points at that end and be ready to open the crossing gates for the loco to RR, meanwhile the loco crew can be uncoupling moving down over the handpoints which can then be changed by the fireman to allow the loco to use the loop and approach the crossing ready to RR)

    Beyond all that there is another Stop board marking the KESR/RVR boundary, and a locked barrier across the rails.
    And of course there are the standard level crossing Stop boards since the whole station area is 'in section'.

    ** If my memory serves me, this says "STOP, passenger trains must not pass this board"
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  18. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    Signals are not required even for a block post. The W&LLR has operated very happily with stop boards and flags at the block posts for 50 years. There is no reason why Bodiam couldnt be both a block post and remain unsignalled. The relevant regulations require that the operator put in place an appropriate and effective system. How you do that is up to you.
     
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  19. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    So does the Talyllyn.
     

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