Tornado

Nobody is suggesting there is no co-operation, only that more is possible and will become increasingly necessary. Even your myopic view of the world must acknowledge there has been, and continues to be, some elements of divisiveness?

 

Maybe that exists because how ever many times you try and help an individual or group out, said group or individual may never listen to the advice that's being put right in front of them.

What goes around, comes around springs to mind...….

 

Whilst I agree that some folk get to a point almost beyond help, I think that's a slightly different circumstance than the type where there is an underlying, almost irrational, determination not to collaborate. Often this is simply because neither party wishes to be seen to cede ground to the other for fear of losing power or competitive advantage. As I said up thread, I don't think the industry is strong enough to sustain that type of situation in the long term though it undeniably exists. Obviously a significant shift in the market is taking place and it will be interesting to see whether it precipitates greater pan-industry working or increased polarisation.

 

By industry, do you mean the mainline business or heritage railways?

My experience of the latter is that lots of co-operation goes on, both formal and informal, much of it unnoticed by enthusiasts. Moreover, I don’t know any senior managers on the heritage railways I am familiar with that see others as “the competition”: the real competition is between visiting a railway, or spending money elsewhere such as at a shopping centre or similar. By contrast, my distinct impression is that the strength of any heritage railway individually is dependent on having a critical mass of numerous such railways, partly to ensure viability for the ecosystem of small suppliers, and partly to keep the sector large enough to remain a “thing” in people’s consciousness.

Tom

 

Mainline, Tom. I wholeheartedly concur with your analysis of the heritage railway sector.

 

And sometimes they make it perfectly clear that ones advice and involvement are not wanted. One sees mistakes being made and all one can do is just sit back and let them find out the hard, time consuming, and expensive way to correct matters for themselves. I just leave them to get on with it.

 

Some thread drifts are interesting..... and some aren't.

 

Some are also very revealing.

Maybe we’ve all said our bit now? I think there’s a few hardened souls here who won’t be moved.

Perfectly legitimate. But perhaps not helpful for the future. Who knows!

Personally I will just look forward to seeing 60163 back in steam very soon.

 

Forgive me my curiosity, but which “they” are you on about?

 

Been there got the t-shirt - although one soon learns which organizations are worthwhile and grateful for assistance whilst with others one can smugly sit back and let them stew in their own self importance. You won't see it but I have neatly now brought the thread back "on subject" from my very own experience!!

 

The passive aggressive “I know something but not actually going to say it (because it might implicate me or others)” is also absolutely wearying and unwelcome too, IMO.

 

So completely true, time and time again on various threads on this forum!

 

Whilst that is fair comment, a difficulty of "calling out" the parties is it leads to an unholy row that then drowns out the genuine debate. Identify the nonspecific facts as far as possible but not the names?

 

Same here when I read negative comments about people's experiences on the railway at which I volunteer - however, that doesn't necessarily mean that I think those comments are wrong or unjustified.

 

Any plans yet for a Tornado test run on the main line ?

 

I suspect it will be between its doing the 'Tornado At Ten' runs on the Nene Valley and the first booked tour as listed by the A1SLT.

 

I've seen a photo on Facebook of the loco lit up at Wansford this morning.

 

That's encouraging.......hope to see it back soon.

 

While I agree with you up to a point, another point of view is that the way that proffered 'help' is presented has a huge effect on people's reaction to it.

"Hey, I've got experience of doing this. Are you having any bother? Can I help?" is a completely different kettle of fish to "Nah, nah, nah mate. You're doing it all wrong. It'll never work like that. I know all about this. Get out of my way and let me do it..."

Not saying that's how you would be, Eightpot, because I don't know you. But, as with anything in life, no matter how good the intention the way it's communicated is far more important. We've all no doubt come across more than one of the many gobby know-it-alls out there in railway enthusiasm/preservation (most of whom don't) and there are also many who do, but whose communication skills leave a great deal to be desired.

Frankly there's nothing more irritating that someone who 'always knows best', so I can understand the reluctance of some people to accept 'help' if its presented in a certain way.

 

The most annoying thing ever said when something goes wrong is the self appointed expert who comes out with the helpful line ' I could have told you that would happen'. 'Then why the Donald Duck didn't you' must be the only answer