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Peak Rail Annual Report and Action Group

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by huochemi, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

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    A railway could certainly co-exist with the Monsal Trail if handled in the right way, what a fantastic combination with the potential for joint events, and what a great opportunity for getting people through the Peak District to and from its many attractions. But it has to be sold to the great and the good, and the benefits explained.

    After 40 odd years PR ought to be a well oiled machine with a clear strategy for communicating with landowners, local authorities, cycling and horse groups, the Peak Park etc. Just look at what the Lynton & Barnstable has done, or the GWSR, or the Llangollen or Bala Lake in terms of engaging with the organisations that matter.

    Not everyone is pro-rail of course or can be won over but decent marketing and professionalism go a long way. I agree that a double track line would face stiff opposition. Selling the idea of cheerful steam trains ambling along is one thing (OK and some diesels), but I've no idea what stakeholders think about regular freight trains. And just as other people have commented, I'm perplexed by this approach to the quarries. The business case is a mystery because as usual the Board hasn't seen fit to discuss anything with the shareholding owners of PR and there was no hint of this at the AGM.
     
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  2. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

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    I should also add my admiration for the Ecclesbourne Valley, they've made great progress and from what I see and hear they seem to be making a real effort at building positive relationships, especially with local authorities. No doubt about it, heritage railways need to get councillors and officers on side, they can make for influential cheerleaders even if funding is currently thin on the ground.
     
  3. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    How could you fit in even a very short running line between the developments on the old station site and the present Network Rail tracks?
     
  4. deaftech

    deaftech New Member

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    The solution would to be to arrange running rights over the existing Network Rail track to Blackwell Mill and then to reinstall the track to Millers Dale.

    The great scandal was for Peak Rail to abandon their presence at Buxton shortly after having the bridge re-instated at Buxton at the expense of the Greater Manchester Council.
     
  5. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    There's still a platform with enough space for a runround loop and bay platform. It's on the site of the old excursion platform of the Midland Station Site. But there's really not all that much space available and the currently proposed development doesn't currently include access to a future station site.

    The current development plan is here: https://mccarthyandstoneconsultatio...ploads/sites/191/NHS-Buxton-Panels-Lo-res.pdf

    [​IMG]

    So there's space for a half decent station, but it's going to be awkward to put in any kind of facilities there beyond a runround loop. Meaning any cafe or other ancillary buildings we come to expect from a major terminus on a Heritage Line like a cafe, shop etc, might have to be put in coaches.
     
  6. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    And parking, no doubt, at 'NHS hospital' prices.
     
  7. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    So what action is being taken, or planned, by the action group? Moaning on here isn't what's needed.
     
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  8. FearOfManchester

    FearOfManchester Member

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    Absolutely dismaying to be a buxtoner and see what's happening, a few years ago when Tesco wanted to build on the site regular people who didn't want it really felt like we had civic power to change the outcome, and we did. But the powers that be were on our side that time, and now they aren't, it's a sad feeling to know that the public consultations are just a token gesture, it all seems like a done deal before the public were ever allowed to know about the plans. It's also unfortunate that any sort of objection to an NHS development is a taboo subject. The white peak loop cycle trail was supposed to have a hub at that site, as it cuts through the station road site and down a disused path onto Charles street, from the floor plan I see no provision for that.
     
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  9. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    If you’re a shareholder contact them. As it says on their website certain things are best not revealed until the right moment.
     
  10. Midlandsouthern

    Midlandsouthern New Member

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    I think all the worrying about buxton midland site is silly. PR back through the years made decisions for what ever reasons to sell bits of the site off, hindsight is a wonderful thing looking back. Now there just enough for small terminus nought else from looking atthe aerial image. Effort need to focus on the railway thats there at the moment and how sort the problems out and get back rebuilding from rowsley and improve what you have. Not saying dont keep hold of it. As you never know. Tracks may return but focus on the current issues at hand
     
  11. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    I think we probably are close to railway saturation. Not because there are too many lines, but because there aren't enough locos and rolling stock items in good enough condition to run many more, and there aren't enough financial or manpower resources to take everything that is sat waiting its turn for overhaul/restoration to plug that gap.
    I do also think that Derbyshire in particular probably has its fair share of heritage railways (Peak Rail, Ecclesbourne and Butterley), and the presence of all three of them may actually mean they are hindering each other by stealing each other's volunteers and visitors. An additional railway line at Buxton would surely only worsen this problem. Far better to focus on sorting out the current problems at Peak Rail and extending from there. Having cycled the Monsall Trail from Bakewell onwards I do not think there will be many benefits for Peak Rail in extending beyond Bakewell, great scenery, yes, but there's no real end attraction until you get to Buxton. Far better to try and get to Bakewell and then focus on ensuring that stretch is as good as it can be. While a long slog at 1in100 up to Millers Dale with 3 tunnels is attractive from a punter's point of view, it will be extremely expensive to reopen and maintain and I'm not sure the financial return would be worth the investment
     
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  12. snappertim

    snappertim New Member

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    Having only lived in the local area for a couple of years I am not an expert on PR but I would make a few observations.

    Whilst it is true to say "never say never" as far as Railway preservation is concerned, it does seem to me that as PR are no nearer to re-opening the line now, than 40 + years ago - it ain't going to happen. If PR wish to pursue this dream [or is it a nightmare?] then it would be worth following the example of K&ESR. there the proposed extension from Bodiam to Robertsbridge is being handled by a separate Company, separate directors but in co-operation with the existing K&ESR board. I would submit that there is a danger of PR board taking there eye off the existing operations, whilst chasing a dream.

    Heritage Railways, like any other enterprise need to develop to succeed; stagnation is not an option. There seems to me to be very little visible progress on PR. The facilities at Rowsley, do not make it a destination for the visitor, whilst Matlock is a destination in its own right. Clearly it makes commercial sense for PR trains to actually enter the NR station especially as there is a reasonable public rail service onward to Matlock Bath and Cromford, both tourist destinations. Perhaps even a combined ticket is possible? Unfortunately with no run round facilities available within the station, all PR trains have to be top and tailed, a waste of scarce resources. There is a run round available at Matlock Riverside a close by, but propelling the train to use this, is out of the question; would the Inspectorate allow it without passengers? No doubt this has been rejected on a variety of grounds .

    There is undoubtedly good work being done on PR. In particular at Darley Dale station, arguably the jewel in the crown with the original gothic style buildings, albeit that the downside buildings are in a poor state of repair, and not owned by PR. However much of the funding to re-instate the footbridge and station lighting is carried out by a supporting charity. The LMS Carriage Society also does some terrific and skilled work at Rowsley, in very basic facilities, and their latest output runs every day on the service trains. The only problem is no-one is allowed to ride in it as far as I'm aware!

    PR like any other heritage Railway lives or dies by the efforts of its volunteers, staff, and supporters [which usually means shareholders]. You need to value them, communicate with them by every means ; today the opportunities are endless. Postings on this thread would seem to indicate this is not so - I really don't know. Interestingly comments , good or bad, from visitors on TripAdvisor mainly go unanswered by PR. Many people look at these comments before visiting - just compare that with Crich Tramway Village

    So in summary I suggest that PR concentrate their efforts on improving the experience for visitors, volunteers staff and supporters otherwise it becomes "same old, same old". Forget the extension to Buxton, in that this is a separate issue that needs a new Company, new Directors.

    I will now put on steel helmet, and retire to bunker.
     
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  13. Midlandsouthern

    Midlandsouthern New Member

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    I wouldnt retreat to a bunker snappertim. Valid points all round. Leisure and tourism is tough market you dont offer quality and bit off ooo to draw people you lose as they go somewhere else. Buxton sbould yes be seperate entity if its to be pursued. Though dont see it a worth it tbf, too much time has past now for it too be viable and worth the massive expenditure
     
  14. D6332found

    D6332found Member

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    Have you thought of Mediation?!? Better employ a professional business manager to sort this out than more studies?
    A lot of this is speculative of the issues which are said to be issues here.
    There are a number of issues.

    Seemingly aggrieved ex volunteers, unsure of the numbers or if its loud shouting from a few?
    If there are many then perhaps the company needs to explore why and this issue MUST be resolved, BUT if its a few vocal, with 2 local railways competing seriously for money/tourism, it may be spurious. But it must be resolved in the minds of potential volunteers/donors/councillors et al. You will hear people talking negatively about Peakrail in the area.

    Is it just a lack of volunteers with 3 local railways and Crich so nearby?

    Disputes on the line, a well known one a few years ago, and forgive me if incorrect, but is the Austerity owner also a PR Director? In which case this is very odd.

    Regarding PERCEIVED lack of extension achievement they have done well to get so far, but further forwards there seems a few HUGE issues. One is the overbridge over the A6, and the vast costs- millions! Another may be old fashioned or feudal Lairds unwilling to help/sell the railway over what they perceive as 'their land.' Perhaps these people even conspire to inhibit progress(I heard such hearsay on a visit to the railway)? In such an old fashioned place these people may not make the Local Council easy to approach, and then there is the cycle trail people. Has anyone communicated a cost to get to Bakewell- 10millions? Is it realistic, again, one worries that money is being spent on another feasibility study, is this good use of PR resources and who is doing it.
    Having a really good publicity campaign would perhaps push this scenario. Or you could build a really nice station and activities/mueum at Rowsley South and admit defeat.
    TO bridge the road would need a similar effort and appeal to the GCR gap, perhaps they will need to consolidate what they have- think Wensleydale and others that try to over extend, good examples Bridgnorth and Rawtenstall being stated forever as lines end. Perhaps they just need to communicate these issues better.

    To lose all the structure in a overtly hostile takeover would lose all the loyal people who have spent what seems like decades, that's assuming they don't have a majority shares which they may well do.
     
  15. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

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    Yes some valid issues highlighted, that PR hasn't addressed for many years. The current PR offering is nice but limited for families (the core market) and patchy at best for enthusiasts (despite having one of the best collections of diesels in the country).

    Given that we have been confined to a modest route length for many years we really ought by now to have a top notch visitor attraction with visible signs of progress to keep people hooked. Our stations are different enough to be interesting in their own right, Matlock has an awkward operating arrangement but it should be a honey pot, Darley has classic architecture in a semi rural location and Rowlsey has the space to be a centre of engineering excellence and a family oriented attraction. Not forgetting the many under-sold opportunities presented by the groups based at PR.

    I was made up when we got in to Matlock town (accepting top and tailing as a medium term inconvenience) and like many others I put my hand in my pocket expecting the extension to be the catalyst after years of PR stagnation. But in the absence of a strategic plan or any clearly defined and costed projects it's hard to avoid the sense of drift, which translates as disengagement especially amongst armchair supporters who would otherwise be inspired to contribute to the cause physically and financially.

    Successful railways have a combination of attractions and commercial enterprises e.g. adventure parks for the kids, accessible loco sheds to look around, school curriculum packs, camping fields and coaches and holiday lets, online shops and so on. Don't get me wrong, these things take a lot of time and effort and resources need to be targetted in the best way, which is why input and buy-in from shareholders, members and volunteers is so, so important. It's a heck of a lot to manage and co-ordinate, and no one person can possibly do everything. I would never cristicise people for their commitment and individual effort, but in a largely volunteer run organisation good leaders need to inspire a diverse range of people, seek advice from people who are experts in their field and manage by consensus.

    PR volunteers who are closer to the action might have a different take on things, but commenting purely as a PR shareholder I believe the underlying problem is the insular management compounded by some significant personality clashes. It's a recoverable situation, but we're in a precarious state at the moment.
     
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  16. T'Bogger

    T'Bogger New Member

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    I think you hit the nail on the head Vulcan Works. I was doing my usual volunteering thing there yesterday, and whilst we get on with what we are doing, the current atmosphere is like a strangle hold on us and many of us are getting fed up of it all.

    Things have been achieved since 1997 when we 'made it to Rowsley South', like a donation funded loco shed that no one can go in, two train running capability that doesn't get used as often as it should and we made it into Matlock proper but at the extra cost of running two locos for one train. With all the recent legal disputes that the directors of the PLC have put the railway through, the Peak Rail Action Group seemingly threatening an EGM and the feasibility study, its like everything has just gone crazy with no end in sight at the moment.

    The whole railway needs a real shake up and wake up to give the visitors, supporters, shareholders, stakeholders and volunteers something to believe in and look forward to again. And it needs to happen soon.
     
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  17. Midlandsouthern

    Midlandsouthern New Member

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    PR should be a great MR/LMS railway in style. Telling and showing the history of the trains that run serving the communities and industries of the peak district. To which the basics and building blocks are there to achieve that. I do have soft spot for PR route. As t blogger says morale looks low and when you have good volunteers and groups you gotta keep them, and give them direction and something believable to part of, or they go somewhere else. As a outsider looking in its a shame things are struggling and maybe an EGM where both sides can air the views no matter how heated it gets and then shareholders and members vote on what direction they want the status quo or new direction and the consquences that go with either. Least have it come to an head and sort it out.
     
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  18. sycamore

    sycamore Member

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    i would imagine with apx 1 mile parallel running anyway it would be nigh on impossible to avoid such an occurrence!!!???
     
  19. PRAG

    PRAG New Member

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    Ladies and gentlemen

    Although many of the comments above are interesting (if in some cases, a little un-informed!) it has got well away from the title of the thread. That is perhaps our fault in part – PRAG has been somewhat pre-occupied – and as has been rightly said earlier, we feel it preferable only to issue information as and when necessary. This may seem a little secretive but this was also the reason why Pete Briddon took on the mantle of PRAG spokesman as he was gullible – er brave – enough to be the target for whatever Peak Rail management would throw.

    We knew that when the present incumbent Board saw real opposition surfacing that there would be no limit to their behaviour – as the allegations made and motivations attributed to him in the Peak Rail 'newsletter' demonstrate. The allegation, for example, that Pete made numerous spurious complaints to the 'Safety Inspectorate' to try and get the railway closed down is totally untrue. Pete has made no such complaint. The matter is currently awaiting response from a further firm of solicitors representing Peak Rail plc and we hope that wise counsels will prevail.

    Similarly the action taken by the Board of the Peak Railway Association (whose key Directors also hold seats on the plc) in refusing his renewal of membership was presumably based on the same mis-information and demonstrates a fundamental failure to understand conflicts of interest and how they should be managed. So far the PRA have failed to respond adequately on the matter – so each PRA Director was personally mailed a final warning last week that if ignored, Pete will seek a judicial review of the PRA Board actions.

    On the positive side, PRAG spent some time putting together a team of people prepared to act as Directors, and a truly amazing team they are too. Fresh blood is one thing but these are people with working knowledge of railway operation, regulations, finance, etc. Shareholders who have supported us from the beginning already know exactly who they are, but you must excuse us not making their names generally public – yet. That we have more than enough committed shareholders to force an EGM is a fact – their forms are signed up and ready to go. So we believe PR has a future, but it still involves a fight to bring it about.

    We will try to answer any reasonable questions – but please don't assume that our crystal ball is any better than yours.



    Let's get Peak Rail back on track.
     
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  20. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Very encouraging to hear that not only do you have enough forms to force an EGM but also replacement directors lined up too. Best of luck, hopefully this will help Peak rail realise more of its potential than it currently is in time.
     
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