Swanage Railway General Discussion

Thank you

 

As I can't imagine this being much different for any large wheeled four coupled loco from that era (and sorry if it sounds like a daft question) how were matters handled in pre-grouping days?

As mangled motion resulting from slipping was as much of an issue in days of yore, the only likely difference which jumps to mind is that more services back then might simply have meant more sand being deposited on rails than is the case for today's heritage lines.

....or (which wouldn't surprise me) am I missing something?

Love those snow piccies .... very atmospheric indeed.

 

More frequent trains was probably one significant difference - at least in light snow, you could keep snow building up on the railhead if trains ran frequently enough. An issue for heritage lines "out of season" is that often railhead conditions can be quite slippy for the first train on a Saturday if nothing has run since the previous Sunday - or longer. That doesn't just apply in snow fall.

Tom

 

Indeed.... the amalgam of rust and moisture seems one of the best heavy lubricants in history! Lines such as the S&C or the routes in the Scottish highlands must have taxed the skill of drivers to the utmost. Driving technique can surely only go so far.

It must have been even more 'interesting' back when single drivers were in vogue. Even in Victorian times, the number of locos available for double heading under adverse conditions was finite.

Fantastic to see those winter scenes on Purbeck.

 

When the U Class came to the Moors a couple of years ago I was surprised how much sand we had to put in the boxes. Apparently they were completely empty as The Swanage Railway do not use sand in normal circumstances - might be different with a big wheeled 4-4-0 though.

Peter James

 

I had certainly never heard that. Swanage isn't the steepest line in the country, but NO sand? OK, The Isle of Purbeck is hardly in the Blaenau Ffestiniog league, rain-wise, but the odd soggy day is scarcely unknown on the south coast. Do you happen to know, had the loco come to the Moors from service or the workshop?

Of interest, are there any track circuit issues with using sanding gear on the Whitby line?

 

As I recall the loco came direct from service.

There are no track circuits between the controlling box at Nunthorpe and Whitby.

Peter

 

Its worth pointing out of course and with no disrespect to todays crews that in 'the old days' drivers would be driving the same route with the same locos day in and day out through whatever mother nature threw at them so they got to be very good at it, and capable of dealing with situations that modern drivers rarely experience..

By the same token though by all accounts while drivers in the past included some real stars, there were also the complete duds that would not be tolerated today

 

Looking at the service set from both sides, credit to the fitters, not a steam leak anywhere on the steam heat system............assuming it was on.

 

Not using sand isn't uncommon on heritage railways. I believe that Llangollen is also another non user of sand. Or, at least, was. I also remember an incident with 71000 when it came to the NYMR. The support crew prepped the loco and, when asked, confirmed to me that they had tested the sanders. When we later slipped to a stand despite putting the sanders on, the rep on the footplate said we'd probably run out of sand. When further questioned on this, he said they were working but they never put any in when running on heritage railways. They did for the next trip!

Track circuits on the Esk Valley line? There's nothing on the EVL! The only way the signaller at Nunthorpe knows the whereabouts of a train is when the driver phones to say where he is. He then moves a marker on a magnetic whiteboard as a reminder. Even the token machines are not controlled by the signaller, other than giving verbal permission to withdraw a token. Actually, there are track circuits on the EVL at Battersby. They control the junction signals on the approach As a train arrives, it is detected and the appropriate signals and route are set.

 

Some years ago I remember a class 2mt 2-6-0 visiting the Bluebell for a gala, without working sanding gear (it's home line was flat). We also happened to be the first train on a Saturday and we had an interesting time of it clearing the tunnel on our first trip! The later trips were much easier once the railhead cleaned up, but sand would definitely have been useful on the first trip. Load was about 180 tons.

Tom

 

Just out of interest what sort of sand would you use? Just ordinary builders sand? Thread drift I know, it's something I haven't thought about before.

 

At Swanage, as its so rare to need to use sand we tend to lack experience and confidence in its use. In over 5 years as a fireman doing over 30 turns a year I don't ever remember using it. The M7 generally had enough weight with the side tanks not to need it. Everything else is sure footed enough on 5 coaches. Perhaps that will change now with the T9. In pre grouping days the coaches were lighter than Mk1s but then the T9's trains were probably longer?

Another 'adhesion' issue for Swanage is the local hard water. This causes a buildup of 'dissolved solids' in the boiler water because the constant evaporation tends to concentrate whats left behind. In event of a violent wheel slip, the sudden use of steam can lead to foming which can then carry over water to the cylinders.

TDS 'total dissolved solids' is measured every morning and controlled by 'blowing down' the boiler. Water treatment is added to precipitate out the hardness and prevent scaling but (as I understand it) this can increase foaming. Its a playoff between scale and foam. Back in pre grouping days I think they were more accepting of scale having a massive boiler shop to deal with it. These days protecting the boiler is more important. A Reverse Osmosis plant for the loco water supply would solve this.

Lastly, back in the day, station pilots were more commonplace so banking assistance was fairly readily available.

 

I don't know about how you describe grades of sand, but the stuff we use is fairly coarse - maybe 1mm or so in grain size. I'm pretty certain we just get it delivered from the local builders' merchant.

I can understand why, if you are a line that rarely if ever uses it, why you wouldn't fill sanders at all. If it sits around unused for long periods, it can get damp and then clog so that it doesn't flow properly, or worse - flows on one side but not the other. So if you are going to use it at all, it is probably helpful that you need sufficient that what is in the boxes is gradually used, especially through the Autumn and Winter.

Tom

 

I wonder if any heritage lines have sand wagons?

Sand house and stack at right of photo of Saltley.

 

Good question Alan! I'm not exactly brilliant at searching the Vintage Carriages Trust database, but couldn't find anything specifically listed for 'loco sand'.... assuming many other lines went to the trouble of idented dedicated kit.

(Tom Rolt described the Talyllyn's crude drying frame to 'process' MKI beach sand, generally rather finer than that mentioned by @Jamessquared.)

Cue a post from one of our number familiar with a line which has one .....

 

Wheres the Loco Roster?

The Loco bit says that its with timetables but I cant find it.

I am thinking of a visit between 4th - 7th April

 

There has never been a loco roster on their website, only "Today's Services" on the home page lists what is operating that day.
A phone call is the best option nearer the time.

 

Which loses them quite a lot of custom.....

 

How is the vintage carriage fleet coming. With your maunsell and bullied coaches? Is swanage doing a slow introduction of them into service