Edward Thompson: Wartime C.M.E. Discussion

All of Townends books mentions the A2s, either in part or a whole chapter.

The Thompson Pacifics numbered a total of 26 across three A2 sub classes (6, 4, 15 of each) and one A1/1 amongst 49 A1s, 79 A3s, 34 A4s and 15 Pep A2s (almost all in Scotland).

Cleanliness isn’t necessarily an example of worth. All of the Thompson Pacifics (bar 60113) were classed as mixed traffic and they generally excelled on fast fitted freight.

We seem to conveniently forget that the LNER and then BR eastern region did more than just fast named expresses sometimes.

 

IIRC a number of Thompson Pacifics were allocated to New England and that was the kiss of death as far as cleanliness was concerned. Much the same as Gateshead.

 

Peter Townend's accounts of his time working with - (not watching) - all of the Pacific types seems fair and balanced; they all had issues, even the Peppercorn A1s'. He covers each type in his book "East Coast Pacifics at Work" and there is a fair amount of positive data for the Thompson engines in the book, including mileages, testing , works visits, etc., but for the Thompson Pacifics, one particularly entry sticks out;

"The A2/3s' deserved to be remembered, however, for one achievement towards the end of their life. A block cement train was booked to run from Cliffe to Uddingston and the timing from Peterborough to Grantham including the climb to Stoke was particularly sharp for the weight of train hauled. Class 9fs were booked for the working and could not keep time but an A2/3 was sent out one day with Peterborough Inspector Bill Buxton who reported back that it was the only locomotive to master the job."

You can't sneer at that, mixed traffic indeed.

Cheers,

Alan

 

Ok , Goods then (lol)

 

hooray ! a lot will disagree, but you have expressed my feelings exactly. most of the time HNG gave the LNER exactly what they didn't need .underpowered and fragile pacifics doing work a Royal Scot could do .
a 6'0, 4-6-0 version of the O4 would have sorted the mixed traffic problem . something like a Scot or a Brit for the bulk of the express work and an A2 pacific for the heavy stuff ,and he would have been home and dry ,but no , he had to have the conjugated gear
I have never seen the point of the V2 .if ever there was an engine that should not have been built that was it

 

There are many who would argue that the only locos the LNER needed were the V2's

 

Sounds like a suspiciously big chuffer - I'm sure there's at least one who would argue that they didn't need anything bigger than a J72 ...

Tom

 

"Goods" no good for you then?

As for the 6'-2" Pacifics and the V2s - that would be the V2s "the engine that won the War" as quoted by railwaymen - they were considered as Mixed Traffic locomotives by the Operating Department and would be utilised as such. They could handle Express trains too and would often be used as substitutes, indeed, there are many instances of engines that shouldn't have been built hauling 20 coaches trains out of Kings Cross or running the Silver Jubilee to time; how could these people have built such poor machines and keep their jobs? How did the railway keep running with such poor equipment?

It's a pity that there are those that are still underlining numbers in their ABCs at the platform end who get the time to troll on discussion forums, I can just picture them now, pot bellied sad old pensioners in shorts with a school cap on, perhaps you know one of these lamentable souls?

Cheers,

Alan

 

I’m sorry - but to suggest the LNER didn’t need the V2s is to be ignorant of the work they did.

They were very much the engines which won the war. No dispute. Thompson continued building them, albeit with four tacked on the end of the 66 built during the war with his valve gear and a front bogie. He and his team were also responsible for the redesign of the front pony truck, based on the LNER O6 (Stanier 8F) design.

 

If you truly believe what you've written there, then you've taken leave of your senses. Given that Peter Townend et al kept the A4s in front line service right up to the end of ECML express passenger steam shows that they were far from fragile and underpowered but then you probably know that and are just indulging in a bit of trolling.

 

And don't forget "poor personal hygiene."

 

And the sandals/white socks combo...

 

Indeed, that stain does look a "wee" bit suspect.............

Cheers,

Alan

 

the V2 boiler on a 2 cyl . 4-6-2 would have been a better option . Sam Ells was not overly impressed

 

Yes but he came from a railway that thought things like a fully enclosed cab and superheaters were a luxury.

 

So presumably you have a high opinion of the A2/1 - which was exactly that but with 3 cylinders?

 

well , the A4 Only escaped the fragile accolade after the big end was changed to the Swindon type and were erected using Swindon methods . initially that created more heating problems because of reduced tolerances .
they were a good machine in their later days , but over 2000 hp was still a rarity.
Townend wrote that the Elizabethan engines were handpicked , but they still had to have the big ends dropped at 35k to be sure of reliability

 

I have seen the same said about several classes , including the B12 which were invaluable on ambulance trains .

I am aware of the work they did . 2 cyls would have done it better

 

A word that seems to neatly encapsulate the whole essence of this thread!

I seem to be in a small minority to think that the 15xxs were handsome beasts, in the same way that Zs, USAs, WDs and other chunky freight/ECS/shunting engines were. But there, I'm not overly partisan in my like of any particular railway company or region.

 

With the greatest of respect, I’ve done the research. I’ve looked at the figures. I’ve seen the claims and the facts given.

There is no doubt in my mind - whatever may be true about the conjugated valve gear in WW2 at that time - without new V2s coming into service, the LNER had a massive gap in its fleet for pulling troop, munitions, coal and other trains that very few other classes could do without much effort.

The V2s were invaluable. Even Thompson recognised that. That surely says a lot?