Ton up Tornado

Dear Andrew

I think you know as well as I do that FS was used to reopen the S&C, by which I mean the through route over Ribblehead. Ribblehead is the name that people outside our little enthusiast bubble know in relation to the S&C.

It is of course a*delight* (and a pleasure) to come back from a long, unpaid trip at the end of a 12 hour working day to talk in a TV studio - celebrating and spreading the news of the work of many great people who made last night happen, in order to give the preservation a bit more of a boost and indeed encourage folk to visit their local steam railway over Easter - to find the first comment online when I log on a complaint about the semantics of what was part of an opening ceremony tangential to the topic in hand. I mean, really. Come on. Cut some slack here, or perhaps offer your unpaid services to those asking for comment with a couple of hours' notice, yourself.

Best wishes,
"A guest".
Tim.

 

But when the worlds finest piano player goes on stage to perform, someone's had to, make sure the pianos at the venue, its in the correct position on stage and it's correctly tuned and sounds as it should and it's not out of key, yes DBC played the tune but the A1 trust gave them a wonderful instrument to play it on.

 

CJA wasn't convinced FS did the ton and would accept no more than 98.
In fact almost as much controversy over FS's 'ton' as City of Truro's.
Good job Papyrus proved A3s were capable of the ton and more.

 

No matter your allegiance (plenty variety of opinion in this thread - I confess I'm a fan), huge congratulations are surely due to DBC and A1SLT for this achievement, not least on the loco performance front.

I think these are the RTT logs of the two runs:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U63000/2017/04/11/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U63001/2017/04/12/advanced

Note the load is given as 245t - it looked like 9 on the videos though, so maybe a bit heavier. Wasn't this about the load of the pre-war streamliners? I think it was a great achievement to do 100 without much help from the gradient, are there any records of 100 on the Darlington-York stretch in steam days? Most of the LNER 100+ were on Stoke bank as far as I know. Oh to be on Northallerton station at 0325 on 12/4/17!

I'd dearly love to see detailed logs of these runs and know the details of the loco working. I see the video has someone saying they were cruising in the high 90s after hitting the ton so it was clearly no fluke.

Well done to all concerned.

 

Its certainly a remarkable achiement

 

This! http://www.otmr.com/products/otmr.html - A little thing called the OTMR Train Data Recorder which is Mandatory for all motive power operating on Network Rail regardless of how old it is or what its fuelled by. Forget what might have gone on under BR, these days data logs are checked regularly (WCRs non compliance with this a couple of years ago being a significant factor in what almost got them kicked off the national network by the ORR) and drivers will be disciplined / sacked if the breach the speed limits set by the traction type or the line itself. Bitten was given special permission to go up to 90MPH on certain specified sections of the ECML as defined in advance by NR engineers Outside of those specifically mentioned sections lower speed limits applied with the traditional 75mph ceiling requiring to be observed on quite a few bits.

If another owning group wishes to seek permission to operate regularly at 90MPH then they will have to do exactly what the A1 trust have done - rig up the engine with all sorts of extra sensors and collect the necessary data to satisfy the vehicle acceptance bodies it is safe to be exempted from the current 75mph limit on a regular basis. While Tornado might have proved everything is fine for a new build loco of the A1 class, that does not automatically mean the same is true of much older machines built to a different design.

Also while the magic figure of 100mph was indeed a good goal to aim for from a PR point of view, the actual reason for going that fast had nothing to do with hitting that figure and everything to do with stress testing the loco - if you are going to operate at 90mph on a regular basis then you need to allow for the possibility that in certain circumstances the loco could potentially exceed that figure slightly so you would want to be sure everything was still good.

 

So when the NRM gives away its next historic 4-4-0 will the new owners be fitting air brakes and fixed headlamps?

 

I tell you a loco that I would love to see up there doing things like Tornado would be 71000. Congrats to A1 trust.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-39581712

Looking at the laptop screen in the piece above, it seems to be plotting 'g' against some other data (time/distance/?) on the drag box with a 6Hz filter in the way. Would that be the sort of data that could get fed into VAMPIRE?

 

The timers on board agreed on 98.

 

Re No. 9. Sorry, no. Max was 95 and the other timers I spoke to agreed. Not a log that has been published in full for obvious reasons, but an abridged version of the climb to Whiteball has - topped at 70 mph.

I took times at every* quarter mile post and wrote them down as per stopwatch to nearest 1/100 sec so any timing or milepost placement errors would be obvious. Max clearly 95.

60009 Exeter to Taunton time was later beaten by 71000 with a perfectly legal run, by virtue of better start and stop, and has been published in the RPS's 'Milepost'.

* except 185 1/2 as I took Hele crossing instead and of course those in Whiteball tunnel.

 

A great moment for steam!!

 

Excellent news, well done to all concerned.
And to think that in the mid-eighties it was being said that mainline steam would soon be consigned to history, and here we are thirty years later a new build loco kitted out with modern technology doing speeds comparable with today's service trains. Just goes to show that dreams /plans etc can be achieved if you work hard enough.

 

The news reporters on TV last evening were quoting 101.6 mph for Tornado.

 

Yes they have...

The old vs new debate has always been a selling point of Tornado and will be when Prince of Wales joins their stable. This isn't an axe to grind, its a statement of fact, of watching the long term trends develop with interest and thus predict what is going to happen. I've already said that the recent run is a fantastic achievement, by both the Trust and the operator DB Cargo - after all its their safety case where Tornado has been allowed to run at 90. Tornado like other engines will have to prove their fitness to run and paperwork to ensure that all work done meets safety standards and expectations, but the engine then will run on the operators own safety case. Engines go onto more than one, but as I understand it don't have their own.

Personally, I don't think that many other engines will push for 90. I can see things like Bittern, Clan Line, Duke of Gloucester and maybe Duchess of Sutherland, but that's about it. Its fascinating to watch all this develop and the A1 trust really is setting the benchmark for modern steam charter markets well into the future. That's why the rake of Mk. 3 coaches is being sort to get better stock for higher speed and network rail will allow higher speed if all the safety criteria are met and can be proven. The run recently has been for 90mph+10%+1 has shown that it can be done.

I've said its fantastic and that they should be highly commended for the perpetration and operation of this test run as well as what will be done in the future, but as usual, you can't question Tornado without attracting attention. All I did was question the statement that implied others couldn't as they were older and others have agreed that they could, if the right work was done. I have said that Tornado should be the lead into this new era of 90mph running and set the standard for others to follow. What's wrong with that?!

 

Please point out the statement concerned and explain how it implies what you claim it implies.

 

I did 100mph in my bog standard Focus the other day. Funny how times change.

Has any Deltic done a ton since preservation I wonder or any other diesel (would have to be a 50 I think)

 

What about SNG? As the overhaul makes good progress, it would be an opportunity for them to fit all the techno-stuff required for potential 90 mph running? I'd be surprised if it wasn't at least being considered.

 

It's the age old and tedious debate about whether a positive statement supported by reasons is also a negative statement about something similar that doesn't fit the reasons in the positive statement. It will never be adequately resolved, and interpretation is entirely based on the observers starting prejudices. The result is usually a cyclone in a teacup, and offence taken as people retreat into their bunkers.


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