Is a physical rail connection important?

Unfortunately these " easy life" types are more harmful than the WIBN types, especially if they are in positions of power and are the only persons with the power to rein in a person whos actions are doing untold harm, but chose not to do it, Most railways have in their history instances of such things, where someone is on the board, and they allow someone to rail road through actions that everyone can see isnt going to end well, because they didnt want to confront it.

 

Or 'rail road' through actions themselves to further the 'easy life' approach that by no means everyone wants - some people find the challenge of working a busy railway properly is what attracts them to volunteer in the first place.

Back to the subject of the thread, the answer has to be 'if there is a sustainable reason for it, then yes, a mainline connection is important - if not, then how can it be?' Or put another way 'it depends!'

Like any decision of change, those proposing it should be willing and able to support the proposal with proper and well argued case and not just expect everyone else to say 'yes' (or disappear off the scene!) - I know that can be frustrating but no-one has an monopoly on good ideas and having to justify any plan is healthy and will probably make for a better plan because every aspect has to be properly thought through and some of those pesky objections will actually enable a much better proposal to be formed.

Expecting everyone to just agree to ever idea and getting rid of anyone who might not is not healthy and likely to produce the sort of bad plans are are all too obviously not 'going to end well' but there is either no-one left to point it out, or those who might can remember what happened to the last person to try doing so!

Steven

 

A cheaper option, particularly for those with a wrinklies bus pass would be to travel from High Wycombe on the Thame service which I think runs every half hour

 

Predictably, 7 days and no replies to the perfectly reasonable questions set out on Oct 31, from the EWF's (Everything Will Fail), just a brief history of the origin of WIBN. They really do find it impossible to say anything of a positive or constructive nature about the potential of both heritage and NR routes. No line anywhere in the UK apparently, should be extended or, re-opened.

Oh well, goodbye Portishead, Oxford-Bedford and others. Digging out a deep cutting full of stinking rubbish to make a main line connection? Ridiculous! Except that they did it and it has worked.
The S&D at Midsomer Norton must be hated by the EWF's, (not by me) because that is WIBN made real. But of course, all projects were WIBN's at the start. The 3 chaps who bought a 14XX and autocoach, and had to find somewhere to put them, as just seen again on the Timewatch programme. Well, That didn't work out did it. What next, buy loads more engines and stock, an old engine shed, move other buildings lock stock and barrel, and even, start bringing back extinct examples just to 'fill a gap' in history? Ludicrous wishful thinking that will never see the light of day.

There must be some planned project for expansion somewhere on either NR or the Heritage scene that overcomes their relentless negativity. It's not about realism, the dozens of WIBN's that have started with nothing and become established illustrates that. They were all unrealistic, even far-fetched when they announced their plans.

 

Your "points" were answered immediately and succinctly by @Mogul. The challenge for the future will be to earn enough revenue to repair and renew aging equipment and infrastructure. In addition, more and more attention will have to be given to marketing to generations from the "post steam" era.

There are plenty of tourist railways around. If you want to get involved, take your pick.

PH

 

Times also change, most schemes were indeed once dreams and are to be highly commended for their ultimate success. Most, however, started at a time when most people's standard of living (disposable incomes and paid holidays) were improving with a baby boomer generation who had been hooked as train spotters. The "boomers" were often able to retire early on generous pensions and were happy to both volunteer and spend their disposable income. Most economic pundits suggest that since the banking crisis most people have not seen real income growth, pensions have been decimated and health and safety and regulatory structures increasingly tightened. Sadly as they say in many investment adverts past performance is no guarantee of future success. Whilst many of us love to see extensions and new schemes economic reality needs to be considered and the commercial and practical realities of keeping old assets operating safely are unlikely to magically get easier. Simple examples of this are the increasing difficulty in sourcing cheap coaches or secondhand track on which many schemes have been initially based. I'm sure we are all aware of railways where the carriages leave a lot to be desired but they can no longer be replaced by swapping with better condition items or even complete carriages redundant from the main line. As we've seen in other threads the costs of restoring and reupholstering a coach are many times those of a scrap but usable example and may be unsustainable without the sort of tax payer subsidies enjoyed by the main lines. Personally I doubt there are many votes for politicians using taxpayer money to prop up heritage or indeed railways in general when they face austerity and cuts in areas such as care and the NHS which appear to be more universally popular.

 

Every preserved railway has its long term plans and aspirations, some are well planned and financed, such as the Bluebell extension to East grinstead, the GWR extension to Broadway, but at the same time they have taken steps to ensure the long term needs of the railway are being met, such as the new carriage depot at GWR, Operation undercover at the Bluebell and other things such as ensuring you have more ability to carry out more work in house, on the engines and rolling stock after all every extra mile of track opened, means more exams are needed and more stock to cover for those increased exams, its one thing to open an extension and hope you can cope, and something else to actually think what else do we need to do to make it viable long term, now back to the actual subject that of a physical rail connection with NR, now it has to be remembered that not every railway is in the position of having a connection into the national network, those that do, often will make use of it, if your being charged for it, you have to somehow make it pay, i would have thought its common sence, of course once you do have a live connection, then your operation has to change, if you run into a NR passinger station your services have to match somehow what is availible, for instance, if there is an hourly NR service it makes sence to ensure that your own service meets it, and doesnt get in after its gone, leaving no connection ,

 

On the specific matter of cheap coaches, there should be loads of MK3s available in the next few years, at scrap value but in pretty good condition I would guess. Given that part of the attraction of heritage railways is often the sound of the loco, I wonder how expensive it would be to 'retro-ize' the MK3s to fit sliding windows plus any other changes. Would you end up with something very much like a pre-aircon MK2? Are there any expensive obstacles to this or any other reasons which make this out of the question?

 

Except on Sundays when there are no buses to Chinnor at all. Most operating days at C&PRR are Sundays. So I can only visit on a weekday during school holidays and over the summer (assuming I can get time off work, which I usually can't) or a special event on a Saturday or where transport is provided.

 

I wouldn't bet on the condition, while as I understand it the monococque design of the MK3 requires a lot of care.

 

and the design was never made with vacuum brakes in mind, vacuum brake cylinders are if my memory is right larger than air , and can they work with disc brakes? it would be far easier to repair a mk 1, most of the common rot areas are known, and most C&W depts are used to welding in end pillars etc, and replacing platework , re routing drain pipes etc so the problem once fixed shouldnt come back, , on Mk2'sand MK3's i would assume jigs are needed when cutting out sections of monoque .

 

Most heritage railways do take advantage of taxpayer subsidies through being a charity or having a charitable arm. Unfortunately, heritage railways do not seem to show the gift aid separately and of course, are not directly concerned with tax relief received by the donors, but I suspect that in total there is a sizable chunk of actual or foregone government revenue going into the hobby.

 

Moguls points were of a general nature.

I asked which NR or heritage lines could and should be reopened? Name them.
Which existing lines should extend their mileage? Name them.
Is cost the only factor to consider when planning an extension.? Yes? Then why?

 

All too silly! Hardly worth answering but if you must here we go.

Regarding (a) and (b) above, how the heck would I or anybody else know but probably very few now the process has been going on for 50+ years
Regarding (c) of course it is, for tourist lines at any rate
PH

 

Ok, I'll play:
a) Oxford to preferably Cambridge, but at least Bedford (hopefully this is actually going to happen)
b) C&PRR (in-hand)
c) No, but it needs to be very high in the mix. Also in there needs to be geography and sanity (ie, is this just for vanity?) - C&PR going back to PR is a literal no-brainer. There is almost no world in which it doesn't make sense. I'd love, as someone who grew up in Kidderminster, for someone to put back the Kiddy giddy*; or for the SVR to go north of Bridgnorth. The more rational part of me** thinks they're better off keeping what they've got in good repair.

* and there are even people talking about that from time to time
**When I win the Euromillions, all bets on rationality/economic sanity are off - Alnwick to Coldstream is coming back....

 

Woulden't an added bonus to the GWR be that you could run tours on racedays direct from London and elsewhere to the Racecourse rather than the punter having to get up from the Midland station on foot, bus or whatever ?.

 

I've always thought that rich racegoers might pay eye-wateringly expensive amounts for a high-class Pullman style service from London to Cheltenham Racecourse. Of course, there's a question of mainline paths which might prove difficult, and I'm not saying by any means that this lucrative but infrequent traffic would justify opening Broadway to Honeybourne (including mainline connection) by itself, but it is a potentially a unique factor which could be added to the standard three mainline justifications ('normal' incoming charters, cross platform National Rail interchange at Honeybourne, and PW/rolling stock transfer related traffic) and might tip the balance to make this extension and connection viable.
Anyhow, that's many years in the future at present. But at least NR have made some provision for it.

 

If I did them I might join you on that scheme. A superb scenic experience it would be, and quite useful for commuters and residents perhaps, viable? Don't really think so, pity.

 

As expected, no response from most of the EWF's to the Nov 7 post. Quite incapable of coming up with any positive comment about anything. (No, I'm positive it won't work, does not qualify. Sigh, Yawn)

One response that actually did name a couple of lines so, it can be done. The other carefully avoiding being specific, like a politician and yet still negative, quite a skill really.

The coast is now clear for WIBN's everywhere. The EWF's have now been invalidated, future negative rants and doom mongering can be disregarded and ignored as irrelevant and pointless. You're welcome. Case closed.