Stanier Coronation Pacifics

I'm trying to ascertain if there was a company-imposed prohibition on Coronation Pacifics working double-headed on the WCML in the early 1960s. Any info would be appreciated.

 

All the way through from LMS days. There were three restrictions on assisting engines involving pacifics:

1. The only classes allowed to assist were 4-4-0s, 4-6-0s and 2-6-4 tanks
2. In all cases the pacific had to be coupled to the train and the assisting engine must lead
3. It was forbidden to couple two pacifics together when working a train.

I have seen breaches of the first two (there is photo of 3F coupled ahead of the pacific, but it wasn't assisting as such. It had been provided for the conductor driver during a major diversion over the Little North Western railway.), but the only examples I know of two running together is in backing down from the shed to the terminus.

 

Just out of curiosity and general dunder-headedness why were there such restrictions in the first place?

 

I assume it was due to the sheer size and power of the pacifics effecting the rolling dynamics of the assisting engies; it's noticeable that all the allowable types had a bogie. As to the prohibition on two pacifics, this was probably out of concern for the bridge loadings.

Incidentally, there is a photo in one of my books - although I can't remember which one - of a Royal Scot piloting a pacific, 6257 from memory. That would have been a hell of a powerful combination!

 

I believe there were similar restrictions on certain stretches of the ECML with their Pacifics and the Southern Civil Engineer would throw a serious wobbly if someone tried to doublehead two Merchant Navies.

 

Thanks guys, makes total sense really.

 

Can anyone tell me why some of the coronations were painted in to maroon and not in to BR Green by British Railways. It always seemed an odd thing to do considering all the other locos within BR ownership are painted black or green.


Thanks

 

They were all green at one time but a decision was taken in 1956 to give some regional autonomy and authorisation was given for some ex LMS Pacifics to be painted red and it wasn't just the Coronations, a few Princesses also received the treatment but all those allocated to the Scottish Region remained green. It was also at this time the Southern adopted green for its loco hauled stock and the Western adopted Chocolate and cream for some of its coaching stock used on the more prestigious express workings

 

All carried green, but from 1957 some were painted in maroon by the London Midland Region as part of the introduction of regional variations (same time as the WR painting lower mixed traffic locos green and some stock chocolate & cream and SR painting their coaches green again).

 

Although there were even variations in that... Some carried BR style lining others carried LMS style lining.

 

London Midland steam over Shap has a photo, by Derek Cross, of two Britannias double heading. These were 70013 and 70038.

 

The BR style was very short lived and they all carried LMS style eventually.

 

D

Didn't know that, did any carry red with a sloping smokebox? I don't have access to my library at mo.

 

Yes, just one. 46246 'City of Manchester' for about 7 or 8 months with BR style lining until May 1960 when she was given a full smokebox and LMS lining.

 

I thought there was one, as I say I don't have access to my books at the mo

 

I think he meant LMS 8P Pacifics. It might also be worth mentioning that the only livery carried by all of the class at the same time was BR Green from around 1953 to 1957

 

As Johnb says, the answer was to the title of the thread, specifically STANIER pacifics. I've also seen that photo, and photos of two LNER pacifics in tandem, and of course the Southern light pacifics were also used in pairs.

 

Very kind of you to point out the thread's title. Greatly appreciated.

 

Always worth a look - especially on Nat Pres!

 

The maroon ones worked the day trains, the green ones worked all the night sleepers.