If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Jamessquared, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    The only thing I would like to add is that the running resistance per ton is likely to be less with bogie stock than with four wheelers. A fair average tare for a four wheeler is 11 tons so the maximum load would be seven. Look forward to an appeal for a new boiler and cylinders to go into Stepney; she is your signature locomotive after all!

    Paul H
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  2. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    hi Tom,

    you have to accept that the Bluebell Terriers, when in ticket, were no where near as finely tuned and capable as the IOWSR W8 and W11. Paul is therefore absolutely correct.

    so far as the LBSCR Directors saloon is concerned, if it doesnt have a 'use' then sell it or put a match to it. the same could be said of much that is rotting away in the sidings at Horsted Keynes.

    ok, the LBSCR Directors Saloon is a heavy vehicle, and needs new windows etc. but arguably it is the most important vehicle owned by the Bluebell. i could mention a few other old historic coaches that have been rotting in the sidings for 30 plus years.

    i gather there has been a bit of change in loco policy recently with better management imposed. perhaps a similar approach is required with the coaching stock and these priceless assets rotting away in sidings that many of us remember in service in the early 1970s!

    cheers,
    julian
     
  3. David R

    David R Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    1,386
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Tom

    I expect that we will have 6 Victorian 4 wheelers well before ten years from now - we have 3 in service and 3 in the works, one of those in servivce is likely to come into the workshop later this year for some TLC (after 3188, another 4 wheeler is completed) which gives 4 - then there are the 2 Brightons so we should see 6 four wheelers in service in the next few years.

    David R
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  4. David R

    David R Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    1,386
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There was a proposal in the 1960's to scrap one of the Met bodies to provide an engineering underframe - fortunately wiser counsels prevailed - how does that sit with your suggestions for the Directors Saloon?

    Which other Railway do you suggest might take it on and restore it? We have released a Bullied coach to the Mid Hants because they had a realistic plan to restore it which is taking shape. There is no point selling it unless someone has a costed and funded plan to restore and conserve it. At least it will soon (hopefully) be undercover to conserve it.

    David R
     
  5. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    hi david,

    i am playing devils advocate. plus i remember what Bernard Holden thought of re the LBSCR Directors Saloon. it is a 'forgotten' gem an ought to have far greater attention. plus i remember travelling in it in the early 1970s. i was hoping a Bernard Holden memorial fund might have been started for it's restoration - but alas it is still in the Ardingly siding.

    i could not think of a more fitting vehicle to go behind 'Beachy Head'. both designed and constructed during Lawson Billinton's term.

    cheers,
    julian
     
    David R likes this.
  6. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Bus Driver
    Location:
    Loughton Essex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    On the KESR Terriers are allowed 85 tons up Tenterden bank (average 1:50) and the P class was allowed 75 when last in service.
     
  7. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    ok, lets start a Bluebell LBSCR Directors Saloon appeal! (moderators please feel free to move to another section). get it finished in time for 'Beachy Head'!

    if anyone has Richard Salmon's details please PM me.

    cheers,
    julian
     
  8. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,922
    Likes Received:
    3,829
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    Julian
    Why not PM Richard Salmon ? he is a NP member.

    Go to members page, scroll down and enter in find a member " richardsalmon"

    Regards

    Paul
     
  9. brendan

    brendan New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Performing Arts
    Location:
    Sevenoaks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    'On the KESR Terriers are allowed 85 tons up Tenterden bank (average 1:50) and the P class was allowed 75 when last in service'

    I had a turn last year when two terriers took 170 tons up the bank - which was nice!
     
    Wenlock likes this.
  10. A1X

    A1X Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Occupation:
    Insurance
    Location:
    Good Old Sussex by the Sea
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The problem was the EG extension had to be done when it was, otherwise it might never have been thanks to Mr Osborne and his taxes on landfill removal, not to mention the planning issues at Kingscote. Plus the fact it was done means there is now more money flowing to build sheds etc. It's better to have an extension which funds a shed than a half-finished shed and no extension to pay for the other half.
     
    Hurricane and Wenlock like this.
  11. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    This situation was present before George Osborne had ever been heard of!

    PH
     
  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,731
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Paul, I suggest you beware "wouldn't it be nice" thinking. The Bluebell made a decision many years ago that it's priority was extending back to East Grinstead, and devoted is resources to that. The landfill tax relief made a big difference to how achievable this was, and removal of the relief had a major impact on the timetable.

    That meant choices had to be made, one of which was that the Saloon stayed down the pecking order for restoration.

    Regardless of one's opinion of the relative merit of the projects, you surely have to respect the willingness of the Bluebell to make and then stick to a clear ambition.
     
    CH 19, Paul42, David R and 1 other person like this.
  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Absolutely disagree 100% "Extension fever" is the epitome of "wouldn't it be nice" thinking. Priority for any heritage railway has to be to look after its heritage. Thankfully the "linear scrapyard" is now showing signs of being dealt with.

    PH
     
    Funnell likes this.
  14. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Messages:
    827
    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There are times when less rigid rhetoric and more thought is required.
     
    Kje7812 and flying scotsman123 like this.
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,103
    Likes Received:
    57,432
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Part of being able to look after the heritage in the long term is ensuring financial viability to keep operating, and extending to East Grinstead is instrumental in that.

    Also, in terms of heritage in the round, worth considering just how dilapidated Kingscote station was in the 1970s before it was bought by the Bluebell: it may well have been swept away and the site redeveloped, along with Brighton Upper Goods Yard Signal Box etc.

    Kingscote 1983: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pinzac55/21761667, http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pinzac55/21761665, http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pinzac55/21761661

    May have gone the same way as West Hoathly, same year: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pinzac55/21761659

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
    nine elms fan, Kje7812, ghost and 2 others like this.
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Rhetoric gets people to think if not necessarily to agree.

    PH
     
    David R likes this.
  17. David R

    David R Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    1,386
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Not forgetting the value of the mainline connection - it has just enabled 8 coaches and a loco to travel out to Kings Cross for what I understand was quite a lucrative filming contract - would that have come about if they had all had to be taken by road? As well as enabling the visit of Tornado.

    Also not forgetting that planning, fundraising (and a National Lottery application) for the Carriage shed at Sheffield Park all took place during the extension construction. IIRC the SP shed was first mentioned in about 2002 - that took nearly 10 years to bring to completion, following on from which planning started on the shed now under construction at Horsted. These things always seem to take so much longer than you would expect.

    As I have said before, these things aren't always a straightforward choice between projects - often different projects will run in tandem and people will contribute (both in labour and cash) to those that appeal to their particular interests.

    David R
     
    Kje7812, ghost, 35B and 3 others like this.
  18. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Thanks Tom,

    I don't buy all of this but quite a bit. My doubts are to do with the obvious point that the more you have the more effort and expense it requires to keep it all in trim.

    Do you have mystery shopper reports about the Bluebell? They can be very valuable, particularly as they are from a viewpoint which can be about as far from that of NP as can be imagined!

    Paul
     
  19. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    No doubt about the ability of this line to raise money for projects. Probably its strongest attribute.

    PH
     
    David R likes this.
  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,731
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Just beware the tale of the boy that cried wolf.
     

Share This Page