Scenario

It's 2012 and the rail system is as it now really is, with services, both passenger and freight, developed along the lines that they really have BUT diesel and electric locos and anything other than suburban multiple units have not been invented.

Steam rules the roost, entirely evolved for the long scrapped BR standards.

What locos are we now using ? How would you see Steam evolving? You can even give them numbers if you want /are really sad. .

Bear in mind that the second generation standards built after 1960 have mostly been scrapped by now....(don't let that stop you telling us all about them though

 

5 AT's ?

Bob.

 

you need to justify what they would be used for really....use your imagination! How many of them? where are they shedded? what do they run on? What technolgy do they carry?

 

Hmm...interesting scenario.

How about...

High pressure steam spins a turbine at a few stationary 'power stations'. A generator, affixed to this, would generate electricity, which could be distributed by cables to the rail network, and by rail or some form of 'overhead' cable system, distributed to locomotives powered by electric motors?

Hey presto - a network powered by steam

 

Oh, Electrification. That new fangled means of energy conversion that railways started using in about 1890!

 

For Freight, im thinking a 3 Cylinder 9F uprated to a 10F (im sure such a thing was proposed actually), fitted with all mod cons such as roller bearings, gas or oil fired most likely with caprotti valve gear and lempor exhausts, modern headlights and safety devices, the front end now resembling something similar to a QJ.

For Express Services I think a Turbomotive may have been produced, lacking the hammerblow and moving parts of a conventional steam loco and able to reach higher speeds as a results, with time and investment, the problems in earlier loco's of this type would be ironed out and solved.

The DMU's you've 'allowed' would mop up stopping and branch line passenger services.

I'd also propose lightweight 4-6-0 for (lets use a Standard 4 4-6-0 as a starting point) for General use and to reach parts of the system where the Turbomotive or 10F are too heavy, again this would be kitted out similar to the 10F except with larger drivers and a higher top speed so it's capable of rescuing passenger workings.

Here a mad idea - supposing the safety/shielding issues could be overcome, how feasible is a steam loco powered/fired by nuclear material ?.

 

Very difficult to imagine - electric multiple units were running 50 years before any BR standard; mainline diesels (in other countries) at least 20 years before. So it's hard to imagine some parts of the world moved on (I'm assuming from the tone of your question you are imagining Beeching happened; pick up freight is dead, replaced by block trains etc) - but somehow no-one thought to apply diesels and electrics to traction?

What else do we have? For example, do we have modern computers? What are labour conditions like - can we still get labour to do tough, dirty jobs?

Assuming the rest of life has developed pretty much is, and assuming Beeching happened, I'd imagine signalling would be pretty much as it is today - e.g. most mechanical boxes would have gone to be replaced by a smaller number of power boxes, with a consequent labour saving. That in turn means trains aren't "watched" from box to box - so loose coupled stock is out; everything will have automatic brakes. I'd assume air braking on account of the faster braking it allows.

In a dense network (lots of starts and stops) acceleration and braking are at a premium over raw speed. Labour costs also mean high power (e.g. small number of large engines), especially for freight. Also, if facilities are really minimised (e.g. no run-rounds at termini etc), then engines need to be double ended and drivable in a push-pull fashion. Turbine technology is maybe an option: less to oil up (at least on a daily basis; the complicated maintenance is done at scheduled overhauls). Coupled with high-pressure steam, thermal efficiency is raised. Firing is probably oil fired with computer control of air and oil intake based on real-time analysis of oxygen levels in the exhaust gases. This could all happen remotely, i.e. no need for a fireman to work in a hot environment.

DMU / EMU equivalent: I imagine a unit containing an HP boiler, fuel tank and water tank and a small turbine to allow itself limited movement (e.g. in depots) with a driving cab at one end. To the non-driving end is coupled a three-coach set with driving can at the far end. Each coach has a small turbine connected via a gearbox (to enable reversing); thus each coach is driven on all wheels, increasing adhesion and thus allowing relatively high power and acceleration. Steam supply is via an HP through pipe from the main steam supply boiler. For heavier loads, a second 3-coach set can be connected the other end, giving a six-coach unit with the steam supply unit in the middle.

Heavy freight: You need something equivalent to about two 9Fs. That suggests a Garrett-a-like or something like a US Big Boy, but the limiting factor is boiler capacity - twice a 9F means twice the steaming capacity. I doubt a suitable boiler could be made within our loading gauge.

Express passenger: High speed is more important: almost certainly that means a steam turbine to save the damage caused by reciprocating masses. Whether it would be a modified version of the DMU push-pull I outlined above, or loco hauled, I'm not sure.

All the above is pure b*ll*cks of course: it would never be even remotely as effective as just burning the damn fuel to make elctricity and ship it in using overhead wires!

Tom

 

now you're thinking!


Pure billhooks as you say, but passes an hour daydreaming.

It strikes me that any locos would need to be much bigger and a fair bit faster too.They also need automatic fuel feed of some sort (pulverised coal blown on to the grate by steam jets?) The QJ analogy for freight I like, maybe a three cylinderr version would be possible. For passenger, a SUper DUke Of G perhaps.#

I 'm having trouble fitting it all in our loading guage though :-(

 

with a cab at enach end? super Leader?

 

As Tom noted above, the obvious answer to the loading gauge issue is an articulated form along the lines of a Garratt - slung low between the main frames (and I presume we'd be using some form of bar frame) gives you much better allowances. I would also imagine that the cabs would be fore and aft rather than in the middle - with modern systems and a decent mech. stoker the fireman need be nowhere near the firebox - if indeed you'd need a fireman at all - I am sure that a computer to do it automatically could be developed.

A SuperTurboMotive is also feasible, I think.

The other option of course is gearing - you can see the earliest stages of this 'next step' on things like the Leader and Bulleid's Valve Gear. I can visualise something akin to the Fell Diesel, lengthened to accommodate an oil fired flash boiler.

And the final option - a Steam Electric! Picture it - a 50 belching steam out from just behind the cab! Again - oil-fired flash boiler monitored by a computer, running a V-shaped steam enginer, powering a generator, with the electric motors in the bogies.

 

Thats my take on modern steam, it would look like a hst power car, but with a flash boiler powering a generator that powers traction motors with a driving trailor at the other end.
freight would probally have the same type of loco but with added power cars ,all controlled from the leading cab simular to american practice , these would not have cabs but would be through piped for control systems so you would in effect have a single power unit that powers freight and passenger with slave units fitted in behind the lead unit there would be no fireman, everything would be computor controlled there would be deisel shunters in depots to make up the trains mostly because of ease of power , but saying that nothings stopping the main locos of having a small standby deisel engine to power the generator at reduced speed till the steam unit kicks in